Why do non-fans think we think it's real?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by gomtuu20, Oct 5, 2010.

  1. ProtoAvatar

    ProtoAvatar Fleet Captain

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    Sports are athletics for the teams actually participating in the game.
    For the fans
    (if they are on a stadium), they're entertainment - just not on TV. Fans do NOT participate in any way in the competition; they just sit and watch - they could just as well be watching TV (and, in many cases, thay are watching TV).

    Also - cut down on your aggressivity (and your obvious bias) - they only show how insecure you are about being a sport fan, Alex1939.
     
  2. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think so because they are qualitatively different. They are different experiences altogether.

    You might as well say that sex is the same as eating dinner, since they're both activities that bring physical pleasure and that people often enjoy in groups of two or more. This reductive "x = y" nonsense serves no analytic purpose; it's simple defensiveness.
     
  3. ProtoAvatar

    ProtoAvatar Fleet Captain

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    Dennis

    Both activities are inspired by the cultural phenomenon you are a fan of, both activities have as purpose the creation of an original product that involves effort, very different from the habitual fan activity - which is watching (sports/TV) in both cases.

    They may be different experiences (one physical, one intellectual), but as far as their relationship to the cultural phenomenon you are a fan of is concerned, they are quite comparable - in both cases, you are trying to imitate the professionals who get payed for doing it (the sport players, respectively the scenarists/writers).
     
  4. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Captain Captain

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    My "aggressivity" is not due to insecurity, but due to annoyance at people's lack of total common sense. Obviously I don't mean sports fans are competing in athletic events and its ridiculous for you to have drawn that conclusion.

    Let me make it simpler for you...

    Athletes are real. I have met and seen many in bars and restaurants in the town I live. They are part of the community where I live. They host sports camps for underprivileged kids, they do community service in soup kitchens for homeless, etc. The sports events they compete in are real.

    Star Trek characters are fictional. They do not exist. Their stories are not real.

    I hope that helps you.
     
  5. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, no.

    I don't play football in imitation of anyone; I do it for its own sake. And the other thing, I've been paid for.

    Yep.
     
  6. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No, they're not the same. But in context...

    Overall, my office was the most professional-looking one in the agency (neat, organized, freshly painted, real art on the walls) and received compliments. And I usually dressed in suits or other business attire. He had an office that was chaos -- so messy that people talked about it. And he dressed very casually, even when he wasn't in a team shirt.

    In terms of "professional image", which was his concern... sorry, I won hands down.

    And, yes, one Zena or Hercules poster might be appropriate, depending on what kind of business it is.

    I once visited a business where the boss had a wall of shelves in his office holding models or toys of some sort. I forget what they were now, but the point is that they were kind of playful in an otherwise business-like office.

    I thought it was really cool; you might've thought it was unprofessional.
     
  7. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Captain Captain

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    Sure, it all depends on the workplace. Based on your original description I just pictured a very professional corporate workplace, and in that setting its hard to see hanging something from a tv show on a wall as normal (unless of course it was in that industry).
     
  8. ProtoAvatar

    ProtoAvatar Fleet Captain

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    Athletes are real - and get payed good money for the games they play which are 'real'?
    Well, actors and scenarists are real too- and they also get payed good money for their work. They also donate/participate in charity. The sets where they play and the cameras are real too.

    Athletes play a game halfway around the world, actors play a scene halfway around the globe.
    The fan has no influence on the outcome of the game being played or on the script being acted; they may take place in 'real life', but they do not affect his life, one way or the other, in the least.

    Your aggressivity (and bias) is due to your limited viewpoint:

    You fail to realise that most sport fans are NOT part of communities supported by the local sport team; that they lack your financial interest (which does, indeed, add substance to sport - or anything else).
    Most sport fans, far from receiveing (even indirectly) money from sport, give money to sport; from them comes the money supporting your community, for example.
     
  9. AstroSmurf

    AstroSmurf Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You folks would have a stroke if you came into mine. It looks like a Toys R Us exploded in it. But technically it is a studio and an artist can get away with far more than the average business professional. Going to a design meeting with paint in my hair is common place at the House of Smurf.

    But again it is all in the perspective. My Trek toys make me look whimsical in an artsy way. That helps me to land clients. Those same toys would make a lawyer look silly, compromising his integrity. :bolian:
     
  10. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  11. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My office is decorated to communicate the likelihood that I might snap at any moment and that it's probably best to just shout from the corridor and run away.
     
  12. zar

    zar Captain Captain

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    A lot of us do. Just ask poor Wil Wheaton. :(



    What do they achieve? They provide entertainment to fans. They play. They acquire money. They achieve happiness. Contrast to Star Trek actors... wait, there is no contrast. They do exactly the same thing.

    You have made an unfair comparison here by comparing sports teams to Trek fans. You should be comparing sports fans to Trek fans and teams to actors.


    And you, Alex, have made the same mistake. You compared athletes to characters, when the actual parallel is athletes to actors. Actors are real. They interact with fans. Acting in front of cameras is a real job that pays real money.

    Actors play dressup and pretend. Sports athletes play games. Neither are real. One is just a game. The other is just a story. Discussing the dynamics of a sport is comparable to discussing the writers' concepts. Fans are fans.


    Yes.
     
  13. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Captain Captain

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    Neither are real? Uh, yeah, sporting events are reality. The teams are real, the people that play for them are real, the victories and defeats are real, the champions are real. Star Trek is NOT real, it is a tv show.

    Considering it's the actors that are real then... Then why aren't fans wearing Patrick Stewart and Chris Pine shirts instead of dressing up as "characters" from a "fake" show?

    And I don't mean to totally dog the costume thing, because it can be appropriate. At conventions, opening night of a movie, whatever, I don't see anything wrong with that.

    But if I walk into a sandwich shop for lunch, and someone walks in with a Star Trek Admiral's uniform on, that's not normal. If someone walks in with shoulder pads and a helmet to support the local team, that's not normal. A logo from a REAL team, is normal.

    There is a huge difference between wearing a jersey or logo of a sports team (something which exist in real life) verse dressing up in a star trek costume (something that is fake) for everyday public life.
     
  14. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nope, not corporate. Small, relatively informal not-for-profit agency.

    Now that I think of it, I used to know a guy who had a Trek collection in his office. He worked in a more public setting than I did, though, and, as much as I enjoyed playing w/ his toys, I actually thought they were inappropriate. One or two would've been fine.
     
  15. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd love it! :techman:
     
  16. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    You don't get out enough. ;)
     
  17. zar

    zar Captain Captain

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    You have failed to convince me that "it's just a TV show" is valid while "it's just a game" is not. Yes, I know it's a real game, but it's still a game. Star Trek is also a real show made by real people. The Itchy & Scratchy Show and Tool Time are fake TV shows. Star Trek is a real TV show.


    Oh, so when fans paint their faces it's because they're showing appreciation for the "real" side of their athletes, the people with families and who work in soup kitchens? No, they're celebrating the entertainment that those people provide for them, not exactly the people themselves. Actors and athletes are both performers and it is the performance that excites fans.

    Both types of performers have costumes. One is called a jersey. The notion that one is "real" and one is "fake" is silly. They both exist. They are designed and tailored by real people. A sports logo and the logo of the Klingon Empire are both equally "unreal" because they are merely images, and both "real" in that they were created by real artists. They both represent the same thing -- entertainment. Fans display them to show that they enjoy that entertainment.


    No, it's not. Did someone say it was?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2010
  18. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Sports fans get a pass because sports have been around longer and long accepted by mainstream society. But some sports fans can be just as obsessive.
     
  19. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Exactly. Having no interest in sports myself, I think obsessive (okay... dedicated) sports fans are just as weird as they think we are. ;)
     
  20. Alex1939

    Alex1939 Captain Captain

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    Dec 11, 2008
    What about someone who attended a university with a major sports program for 4 years? Took classes with players. Attended games LIVE in person. Lived there for 4 years.

    I think that makes it a little more valid than a TV show.

    And if someone dressed up as Itchy and went to court for jury duty, professed their belief in Itchy and Scratchy as a way life, that would be WEIRD, inappropriate, and abnormal and draw scorn similar to the original question of this thread "why do non-fans think we think it's real?"

    If you saw someone dressed in full team face paint during the middle of the week that would be weird, abnormal, strange.

    If it's a gameday, then that's just like someone dressing up to go to a convention.

    Sports game are real life events. Star Trek TV shows are tv entertainment, not reality.

    I do think its tacky to wear a jersey in public, but it's not even in the same ballpark as walking around in public in a Star Fleet uniform.

    I'm not sure I understand what you are getting at.

    "Why do non-fans think we think it's real?"

    Probably because crazies are out there wearing StarFleet uniforms to jury duty.

    If someone wears a football jersey in public, then they are just a fan of REALITY, a team they support that plays games in real life.

    They get a pass because sports occur in real life. Adventures of the Enterprise do not.

    I think their are sports fans weirdly obsessed the same as Star Trek fans.
     

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