Why didn't they just keep their characters?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by bbjeg, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    Why didn't they keep Marc Alaimo's character Gul Macet, in TNG's "The Wounded" instead of creating DS9's Gul Dukat or keep Robert Duncan McNeill's character Nick Locarno in "The First Duty" instead of creating Tom Paris? They were basically playing the same characters, why the switch?

    Any other similar actor as same character roles?
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2013
  2. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    They didn't want Nick Locarno in "The First Duty" because using him as a main character on VOY would mean Paramount would have to pay "The First Duty" writers every time they used the Locarno character. They didn't want to do that so they created Tom Paris for Robert Duncan to play.
     
  3. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    That's lame, I didn't know it was because of money.
     
  4. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Captain Captain

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    Yeah, just assume that the character from the First Duty is Tom Paris under a pseudonym. He legally changed his name or something.
     
  5. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought Paramount owned the intellectual property; they bought it from the writer for cash up front.

    Did Carey Wilber ("Space Seed") get royalties for THE WRATH OF KHAN? I don't think he did. Paramount owns the characters, the music, the whole deal.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, I don't think that would work.

    Nick Locarno is a smarmy jackass who tried to cover up his involvement in a crash that killed a teammate and encouraged the rest of Nova Squadron to do the same.

    Tom Paris may have also gotten a teammate killed, but he came clean and admitted it. He could have got away scot free, but he confessed to what he did. Locarno would never have done that.

    Tom Paris was redeemable; Locarno was not.
     
  7. I am not Spock

    I am not Spock Commodore Commodore

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    Macet and Dukat were retconned as relatives or something, in the novel series, I think
     
  8. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think it varies from writer to writer and what contract is signed at the time. Harlan Ellison, for example, sued both CBS and Paramount for the use of elements from the TOS classic "City on the Edge of Forever" in various tie-in stuff and a settlement was reached.

    "It ain’t about the ‘principle,’ friend, it's about the MONEY! Pay Me!"
    --Harlan Ellison
     
  9. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Captain Captain

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    It's not redemption if you have nothing to redeem.
     
  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know about you, but a guy who's already owned up to his mistakes before the show's even started doesn't sound particularly compelling to me.
     
  11. Mario de Monti

    Mario de Monti Captain Captain

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    I think that is a bit unfair and too simplified. True, Locarno did try to cover up what had happened. But ultimately he took all the blame and the punishment on himself to protect his team and fellow cadets, sacrificing his own career in the process. And the way the others looked up to him, he did have leadership abilities.
    Nick Locarno may not be the best Starfleet has to offer, but labeling him a "smarmy jackass" is totally uncalled for, IMO.

    As to the topic of this thread, I always found it to be very strange to have the same actor play the same kind of character who had the same background story (colleague killed, pilot error) but to have us believe it´s actually NOT THE SAME character :rolleyes: This never made any sense to me.

    Mario
     
  12. Green Shirt

    Green Shirt Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Agreed. He was more a dickhead than a jackass.
     
  13. maneth

    maneth Captain Captain

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    The same could be said for Armin Shimerman, who played the Ferengi Letek on one episode of TNG before being cast as Quark. Of course, in his case it's a bit more understandable, since the Ferengi are shorter than humans on average.
     
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    In Enterprise's early stages, the Vulcan science officer was going to be T'Pau. But again, having to pay royalties to Amok Time's writer became an issue and the character became the new character T'Pol.

    Armin Shimerman in fact played two different Ferengi before becoming Quark. In addition to Letek, he was also Bractor in TNG's Peak Performance.
     
  15. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Wouldn't any character they wrote for the series be property of Paramount at the time ? Isn't that standard practice, that the stuff you write for the series isn't yours, like programs you code for a company aren't yours ?
     
  16. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Besides the legal issues, there's the fact that a character created as a one-shot may not have been designed the same way you would have if you'd known he was going to be a regular. So, yeah, they may have have wanted the actor to play a character like Locarno, but they also wanted a free hand to reinvent the character for long-term use.

    Kinda like the way the Trill makeup changed between that one-shot TNG episode and DS9. Again, what worked for one episode wasn't deemed attractive or sexy enough for Jadzia so they didn't feel obliged to stick with the old makeup design.
     
  17. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Although, when it came to Tom Paris and Nick Locarno, even the writers of Voyager occasionally mixed them up and there were a few instances where Tom talks about his past as though he were Locarno.

    Not to mention Admiral Paris for some reason has a picture of Locarno in his office. ;)
     
  18. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Read the rest of the topic.
     
  19. asp7485

    asp7485 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Like others have said about Locarno/Paris, I also think having Dukat be Macet doesn't work. The character on DS9 was the person who ran the occupation of Bajor. This likely wouldn't be the same person Cardassia would send to deal with the situation in "The Wounded."
     
  20. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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