Discussion in 'Voyager' started by hayesc0, Oct 26, 2012.
Agreed. They should have just stuck with the TNG series uniforms for Generations.
I liked the two different types of uniforms--a standard duty uniform and a work coverall.
Yeah a variant I can understand, but both at the same time? For the love of God, why?
Obviously this is such a pressing issue for me.
I found it funny that the producers were originally going to change the uniforms completely, but decided at the last minute not to because they thought the poor TNG viewers would be confused by too much change. Who did they think they were making the film for, four year olds?
One for standard duty, another for personnel involved in more labor-intensive duties. If the Enterprise-D was in the process of a shipwide upgrade at the time of Generations, some personnel may have been involved in that while others continued their regular duties. The newer uniforms may also have been used as simply as fatigues.
There should always be uniforms for different purposes - the DS9 jumpsuits looked like something to work in, while the TNG uniforms from season 3 onward looked like office wear.
Though fabrics of the future could be more flexible, water- and stain-repellent, and even thermal regulating (suit temperature regulation was mentioned in "Spock's Brain", indicating that those supposedly thin shirts and pants they wore could be warmed up, somehow), all of which could mean there wouldn't have to be the same varieties of uniforms that we have now.
Chakotay's crew didn't get time to grasp for jack squat from their belongings.
After processing (that welcome peach) they were given quarters.
Here's a question of taste... Were the Maquis wearing dead wo/mens clothes?
Clothing is still gender specific, be a little screwed for choice if you're a boy in a girls room that you might not have the legs for all her Friday night mini skirts.
And what if it just wasn't just their wardrobe, Starfleet issue and personal off duty attire, that these noobs inherited?
What about effects?
Or are we to believe that Janeway sealed the 20 to thirty dead crewman's rooms to be returned to the families of the lost crew in 70 years?
It was a random lottery.
On the second or third day, the Maquis must have had a swapmeet/garage/car boot sale as they tried to trade/bartar for clothes that fit and porn that didn't terrorfy them...
but after all that, 4 years later, Janeway says throw everything into the replicator to reconstitute into a new pattern? i mean sure we made you wear uniforms that stank of other people in the beginning because we were conserving replicator energy, but now lets just throw caution to the wind, because it's time for a new suit.
I don't think it was Casual Friday, since I've worked at a major retailer for quite a while, and when the store expanded and the new uniforms were brought in it was done so gradually---new hires, whenever someone ripped their uniform... So Generations just looks like a transitionary time.
I seem too recall that in a number of TOS novels set between "The Counter-Clock Incident" and TMP, a number of authors have described various situations where the Admiralty and star base personnel received the new uniforms before starship crews, so the authors would describe a mixture of the coloured TOS uniforms in with the muted TMP uniforms.
Actually, here's what happened. New uniforms were made for Generations, but ended up ultimately not being used, as the producers didn't want too many changes from TNG (although they instead had the crew change from the TNG uniforms to the DS9 uniforms halfway through the movie, which was even more awkward than having new uniforms right from the start )
Playmates actually released an action figure line with the TNG crew wearing the new uniforms, based on concept art:
Pic of an actual unused uniform:
These new uniforms were what the crew of Voyager were supposed to wear, but because they were never used in the film, and the DS9 uniforms were, that's what they ended up using on VOY.
I recall reading years ago in the appendix of the Generations novelization that when they ditched the newly designed uniforms (for whatever reason that was), they decided to use the DS9 uniforms for the movie along with the GEN uniform commbadge. However, after watching some of the footage, it was decided that, when viewed on a cinema screen, the DS9 uniforms looked too cheap, so they wanted to go back to the TNG uniforms. Unfortunately, several key scenes (astrometrics and the Picard/Kirk/Soren battle, perhaps?) had already been shot in the DS9 uniform, so they had to reshoot some of the scenes to contain both uniforms if they were going to use the TNG uniforms at all.
It all sounds rather crazy, and I've not heard the exact same story since on this board, so take that with a grain of salt.
Anyway, for whatever reason Generations ended up the way it did, there's your cause for Voyager wearing DS9 uniforms. VOY was supposed to use the GEN uniforms, thereby exploiting the movie's larger budget. When GEN ended up not producing these uniforms and going with DS9, so too did VOY.
In the past, my assumption was that the producers thought the DS9 uniforms looked less "silly" - this was the start of the period in the 90s where color in fashion and movies started being downplayed in favor of black (which hit full force a few years later when everything had to look like The Matrix). I still think this might have had something to do with it, though it's pure speculation.
My in-universe theory is pretty much the same as the others in this thread - the DS9 uniform was created as a casual variant, which was either just for space stations or just mostly relegated to space stations and more strenuous duties, such as maintenance work in the lower decks. This uniform was either introduced at the same time as the TNG season 3 uniforms and just not seen on the show, or came shortly after (in the meantime, the old season 1 uniform continued use as the casual uniform variant, explaining its presence on extras). Shortly after season 7 of TNG, Command loosened regulations on the uniform, allowing it as an optional choice if the Captain allowed it. Alternatively, it was always allowed, either Picard just softened his rules or we just never saw it on camera. When Janeway took command of Voyager she preferred the casual variant, but for professionalism wanted everyone dressed alike, and thus made it the ship's uniform.
The unknown question is why Voyager never started wearing the FC uniforms after they made contact with the Federation. I'm not sure if it's been shown in canon, but in the novels instead of washing uniforms, crew members throw their uniforms in the recycler at the end of the day and replicate a new one the next morning. You could mandate a uniform change at 1 AM and the first shift crew members would all be in the new uniforms when they came on duty.
I assume the out of universe reason would either be not wanting to change the look of the show and making it look like DS9, or not having the budget to make replacing all the uniforms worth it (DS9 could replace the uniforms, I assume, because most of the extras were in civilian or alien clothes. On VOY you'd have to replace every single costume because the DS9 uniforms would have stuck out like a sore thumb on the extras.)
And I just spent more time writing about fictional uniform policy than anyone should EVER.
Watching Generations for the first time, I only realized they were wearing two kinds of uniform when Geordi was talking to Data - I went, "Hey, Geordi's uniform top is made from the bits left over from Data's!"
Or they just decided to wear the DS9 uniforms that day, I mean Picard was wearing a DS9 uniform during the later parts of the film and then switched back to the TNG Uniform for the very end of it.
I'm like the only person ever who never notices uniforms. Or rank. Or pips (other than the fiddling scene of course).
For a more meta reason - once DS9 had switched to the black-and-grey uniforms with colored undershirts, we were to the point where every show had its own, distinct uniform style.
I do not think that that word means what you think it means.
the one day a year where the officers and crewmen can show up at the Quartermasters office and exchange their ratty old style uniforms for a new design without having their credit rooted.
To be honest I now prefer the voyager / and early DS9 uniforms now I always thought the command diversions colours were more bolder than the grey shoulder ones that they used in FC
It was a new uniform and like others said most likely down to CO preference which is why in DS9 you saw members of the crew arrive wearing the TNG uniform and change into the more relaxed version and often when they went to Earth they changed back into more formal attire.
As for Generations it showed how Picard mellowed and became more relaxed, never mind the real world reasons.
Picard wearing the original uniform at the end of the film, it showed he had gotten changed after beating Soran and maybe he felt wearing a formal uniform was a more fitting way for him to leave his ship...I once read a British Army Officer during the 2nd World War had to order a retreat from a town they had been holding for days and shaved just before doing so, as if your going to have to retreat your going to do it with dignity.
Could just be practical as that officer taking his last chance for a hot shower and shave for awhile if he's retreating out to the wilderness.
The Roman art of poisoning wells during a retreat seems like a better use of ones time.
One of the "Generations" writers joked that they figured people would change uniforms only when they showered - this is supported in dialogue when the Kleavage sisters noted that Geordi had bathed after he got back and before he went to engineering to provide them with their plot device. This makes it wierd when you notice that by that logic Worf did not shower over the course of the movie, but the women didn't either.
It did readily show that they hadn't had new uniforms made for the film, except for Stewart. Frakes and Burton visibly had fit problems in their outfits (look at their sleeves) and of course the women didn't have tailored, form-fitting costumes either.
We also know from various sources that the TNG uniforms weren't very comfortable to wear. The early spandex ones caused pain in the lower backs where they compressed the spine, and the latter two-piece costumes (for the guys) still had pants that were not comfortable and the upper tunics would ride up, resulting in the infamous "Picard maneuver" of straightening it out whenever he got up. The later DS9 style had a cut that was more comfortable for both genders and were better tailored for different body types.
Still, while the cut of the DS9/VOY uniforms worked better, I never liked the black look with colored shoulders. Slimming as they were (especially for some of the guys in later seasons), IMO it never fit for a bunch of heroic space explorers to be walking around in ninja black with highlights. There were some early concepts for DS9 which featured the TNG design but with the DS9 front zipper and purple undershirt. I would've liked that as a compromise, personally.
Thought it was worse than just the TNG crew wearing DS9 uniforms. Thought the story was that for the 'hero' uniforms (key cast), they were hard up enough that they were actually wearing THE DS9 uniforms. As in that's the reason that a few of them clearly don't fit very well (Geordie, Riker)...
Separate names with a comma.