Why didn't the Federation salvage Empok Nor?

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by JediKnightButler, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. JediKnightButler

    JediKnightButler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Following the events of "Empok Nor", would it not have made sense for the Federation to take control of Empok Nor and make it into a Federation starbase a la Deep Space Nine? Seems like a missed opportunity to me though I suppose that it's possible that they might not have had the time and/or resources to fix it up as it was discovered(?) near the start of the Dominion War but still.....Were there any official reasons given anywhere why they didn't? And there was not one but two more trips to the station during the season. I would speculate that there might have been a treaty stipulation between the Federation and Cardassians but any treaties with the Cardies were pretty much moot at that point anyway.........
     
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    In the novels set after the series finale, Empok Nor was used as a source of replacement components for DS9.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was probably too badly damaged to be returned to full operation.
     
  4. MickJo1701

    MickJo1701 Commander Red Shirt

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    Empok Nor was located in the Trivas system inside Cardassian space, I doubt they would be fond of the idea of Starfleet setting up a base inside their territory, most likely it would have started the war.
     
  5. JediKnightButler

    JediKnightButler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It looked to be running pretty well in "Covenant". At the time of "Empok Nor", I'd probably agree with that assessment. It always looked weird situated on its side- at least in "Empok Nor" and "The Magnificent Ferengi".
     
  6. JediKnightButler

    JediKnightButler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, that does make more sense. Of course, following the war having a starbase there could help the Cardies with their reconstruction having the Federation Alliance setting up a presence there not unlike the Federation did with Bajor and DS9......
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Which was a silly conceit, since there's no up or down in space. It wasn't "on its side," it's just that they chose to tilt the camera relative to it as a visual shorthand to convey "damaged and listing" to our gravity-conditioned eyes.
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Did they have a CGI station yet for those episodes? I'm thinking it wasn't until the final episode for that big pullback shot. If they had, Empok Nor could have been done with lights off and a partial pylon or ring exposing superstructure.
     
  9. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed, it's the same when we see ships in many shots. They could be flying at an angle upside down for all we know.

    Yes, I believe that is the true, the last shot of DSN was the first and only CGI shot of the station.
     
  10. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not really. DS9 was a pretty unique situation, where the inhabitants of the planet that owned the station asking the Federation for help operating it. Starfleet had a decent amount of peace time to pour resources into the station to fix most of the problems, but fixing Empok Nor would be a waste of military resources when it was obvious that the Dominion War was right around the corner. Not only that, but operating two ex-Cardassian stations meant that they'd be dependent on their soon-to-be adversaries for parts that they couldn't make themselves.

    That said, I could see them trying to do that in the post-war period, but it might be easier to build an all-new starbase than refit something built by people whose cities and industries were blasted to rubble.
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. We never got an indication that Starfleet or the UFP would find it difficult to erect a starbase in the technological sense. Politics drove them to adopt and adapt Terok Nor, and politics may have played a role in obtaining Farpoint, too. But for all we know, constructing a starbase from scrap is fairly trivial - perhaps even simpler, cheaper and faster than building a much smaller starship because the base doesn't need to move at warp.

    What I find quite interesting is the Cardassian side of this equation. Why did they build two seemingly identical stations? Terok Nor was supposedly optimized for controlling and strip-mining Bajor. Was Empok Nor supposed to augment Terok Nor at Bajor, but was abandoned in mid-tow for some reason? Or was it destined for another conquered planet very similar to Bajor?

    OTOH, if its location in the middle of nowhere was its intended assignment, why was it of the exact same shape and design as a station intended to operate on fairly low planetary orbit?

    Regardless of whether towed in place or built in situ, Empok Nor suggests that even the Cardassian Union can abandon large structures of that sort without much concern - this further implying that their construction is a relative triviality, even for entities weaker than the UFP.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe the Cardassians use a really flexible station design that can be used for ore processing or whatever when in orbit of a planet or as a dedicated military resupply and repair facility (if Empok Nor was intended to be out in the middle of nowhere). It would make building the things a lot easier, since you'd only need to pick different modules for each role while keeping the same design and structure for all the stations.
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ I find that very likely. Non-canon though this may be, it's implied in the novels that the Nor-class station design is easily adaptable to different mission profiles.
     
  14. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    This would make plenty of sense. Which is why sort of prefer the idea that Terok Nor was not built in situ (a concept giving it a tad too much "uniqueness") but rather manufactured in a centralized facility of some sort and then towed in place...

    The DS9 Tech Manual description of the form of Terok Nor being true to function would have to be largely ignored, then - the pylons would not exist in order to allow for efficient flow of ore from top to bottom or whatever, because clearly this is not the function they serve on Empok Nor. Then again, the DS9 TM also claims that the shape of the station is an architectural choice, with style perhaps being more important than function after all - the station is said to resemble the buildings of the famous architect Tavor Kell.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Of course with DS9/Terok Nor neither Starfleet or the Federation owned the actual station, so anything that was installed on the station had to be approved by both Bajor and the Federation. (Remember in the Circle episodes everyone stayed behind to pull out all the Federation equipment because the Bajorans were evicting the Federation; plus in "Call To Arms" Kira had to lodge that protest with Sisko on behalf of the Bajorans to say that Starfleet and the Federation were illegal holding DS9, not to mention that in the pilot as well Sisko told Quark that the station was still a Bajoran station and all Starfleet and the Federation were there for were to administrate!)
     
  16. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well the real reason is no alien races in Star Trek beyond the Federation have a lot of ship designs.

    The Cardassians had three ships and two types of starbases. The Klingons have been using D-7 and Birds of Preys for hundreds of years. The Romulans just have the big bad warbird... and a little science ship. Nothing in between. It goes on and on. I know this is due to budget reasons, but it does make the other races look more than a bit two dimensional.
     
  17. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe Empok Nor just isn't near anything important.

    Tarak Nor was Bajor-adjacent, and the Federation reeeally wanted to bring Bajor in from the moment they drove away the Cardassians.

    Empok Nor's not near anything.

    A better question is why didn't the Cardassians destroy Tarak Nor when they abandoned it.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The conquest is beside the point. It was designed as an ore-processing station. I would assume there's a standardized Nor-class station design used for similar mining operations throughout Cardassian space -- just as Starfleet has had multiple starbases using the Regula I design or the Earth Spacedock design. For a real-world parallel, I'm sure there are a lot of identically designed offshore oil platforms or air traffic control towers scattered about. Or, if you drive along the Pennsylvania Turnpike, you'll find different, nearly-identical travel plazas at various points along its length. Terok Nor served functions analogous to all of those, just combined into one.
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They did leave booby traps behind, IIRC. Perhaps the thought of Starfleet and the Bajorans running all over the place trying to fix it up was funnier to the Cardassians than simply blowing it to smithereens...
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always had the impression that Bajor was evacuated very quickly, in a few hours time window and they didn't have time to destroy everything they left behind. Much like the US evacuation of Saigon.