Why didn't Sarek defend his wife?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by jkayd, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Sarek does not defend his wife from the comments made by the Council because he is a junior member of the body and probably would have been scolded for making such an emotional outburst in front of his colleauges. The audio book and book kind of hint at this as well as flesh out Sarek's character. Indeed, it would have been illogical for Sarek to have defended his wife even at the Councillers racist remarks. I find it more surprising that Sarek does outburst when Spock says he declines the Council's offer of admission to the Science Academy. At least he does in the audio book( Zack Quinto does an awesome job reading it!).
     
  2. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Which has always been convoluted logic if the Vulcan half is likely the greater source for emotional volatility. But I guess you can hammer the logic into shape if you assume that Vulcans would have a motive to blame any instability in Spock on the human half.

    And what if Spock himself realized he was, if anything, less volatile than the Vulcans around him? He's always had that "this is such complete fucking bullshit" aura about him, especially when around other Vulcans (Quinto certainly nailed that aspect of the character). :rommie:
     
  3. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Whatever emotional volatility Vulcans might have had in the ancient past, by the 23rd century Spock's Vulcan half would have been his source of intellectual and emotional control. Or that's what all of the characters on the show believed... which is what matters.

    At any rate, the science minister certainly wasn't speaking out of line.
     
  4. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    His Vulcan culture, but not his Vulcan genetics. It takes discipline, not the happenstance of genetics.
     
  5. pookha

    pookha Admiral Admiral

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    it was what spock wanted to others to believe and perhaps even himself.

    but from amok time on we saw that things were a lot m,ore hinky and complex..

    as nerys said it was culture and lot of intense discipline that made the vulcans what they were.
    and not genetics.
     
  6. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While I have no doubt that the Vulcan emotional control was the result of a great deal of study and meditation... both the show and the movies clearly indicated (or stated outright) that there was also a biological component.
     
  7. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    One that can be easily stripped away by spores, viruses,time travel or the need to mate
     
  8. jkayd

    jkayd Ensign Newbie

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    Yes, I guess he was forced to tolerate racism for the sake of "logic". Still, I think Sarek is kind of a jerk and don't get why she married him. There's just no excuse for his behavior - his treatment of spock, his belief that humans are inferior, etc. This relationship worked only because Amanda was the one that made all the sacrifices - or maybe Vulcan didn't allow divorce?:vulcan:
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Judging by what happens at their weddings, I can't imagine divorce is too popular.
     
  10. pookha

    pookha Admiral Admiral

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    really...
    how to then explain the children in yesteryear.
    that more then anything shows it was mostly learned and nature.

    remember even sarek in babel said vulcans had to meditate each day...
     
  11. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly. All of those listed (well, except time travel) affect the Vulcan biology... which is clearly an integral part of the emotional control.

    Yeah, as I said...

    I'm not trying to make the case that Vulcan control is a purely biological virtue, just that it was clearly accepted that there was a biological component to the control that Spock's human half was perceived to be a hindrance to. Whether or not it actually was a hindrance is up for debate, I suppose, but all of the characters seemed to accept it as such.
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    His WHAT? I never got the impression that Sarek believed that about humans. He's not Soval, after all. ;)
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Sounds more like a reaction to certain chemicals. Sort of like humans and alcohol.

    I'm trying to think of an example of this. I'd have to take any information spouted by a human (especialy McCoy) with a grain of salt. What he doesn't know about Vulcans could fill a book. ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 18, 2009
  14. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    References to Spock's "human half" are ubiquitous through-out the franchise.

    Even without taking it for granted that his biology was a factor (which would defeat the purpose of making him a half-breed in the first place) he would still have grown up in a home where one parent was not raised on Vulcan or schooled from a young age in the Vulcan discipline. This, obviously, would also be a hindrance in his Vulcan development and make his high accomplishments in Vulcan society even more impressive.

    Any way you slice it, that old Vulcan dude was right on the money... even if he was a bit tactless by human standards.
     
  15. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    I think Vulcan's are wired differently. A Vulcan's emotions may be stronger than a human's but a Vulcan also possesses an ability to suppress those emotions in a way that would drive most humans insane. I think this is due to a physiological difference in the brain--VOY established that repressed memories are fatal to Vulcans, suggesting a radically different neurological/psychological make-up.

    Looked at this way, Spock's brain may be a true hybrid, allowing him to process logic and emotion more efficiently than either species. Nimoy seemed to perfect this kind of Spock in TWoK. Spock was outwardly as stoic as ever but he seemed genuinely comfortable with his capacity for love in a way that had previously eluded him ("The Naked Time," TMP--before the mind-meld epiphany, at least).

    Ponn Farr aside, how do we know the spores or the Psi 2000 virus weren't acting on Spock's human biology?
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    From what we've seen Spock is close to 100% Vulcan, in spite of being a hybrid He stronger. He has superior hearing, nictating membranes on his eyes, his blood is T-negative (like his pa). Then there is the pointed ears and the telepathy. What ever Human elements that exist in his biology are well hidden and probably not in signigicant enough quantity to make a differnce.
     
  17. gastrof

    gastrof Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And when was this said?

    What we do know is that only during the time of Surak did the entire idea of supressing emotion arise and begin being practiced.

    Prior to, there was no control to speak of, thus no sign of it being biological. This would mean in later times there was no biological component.

    Please show me where it says there is.
     
  18. gastrof

    gastrof Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Years ago Gene Roddenberry and Mark Leonard did a recording where Gene interviews Sarek. It was sold on a 12 inch record, the title of which escapes me.

    During it, Sarek speaks of many things, including Amanda's pregnancy. He indicates that Vulcan doctors had to pretty much jump thru hoops to keep Spock alive and make sure he went full term. From the sounds of things they also had to make some "changes", which I suspect involved gene therapy of some kind.

    Spock may be far more Vulcan than human simply because it was Vulcan doctors who were working on him. Possibly a team of human doctors might have led to Spock having rounded ears and red blood.

    I know it's not from "onscreen" thus not truly canon, but they seemed to have given a lot of thought to what was said, so it is worth considering.
     
  19. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Pick one. Whether it be the Vulcan Priestess in TMP claiming that Vger was stirring Spock's human half or the computer in IV asking how how he feels or Bones stating that Spock was afraid of letting his human side show, the franchise is replete with examples that clearly indicate that Spock was struggling to maintain his emotional control because he was half human. He isn't like other Vulcans because he has human elements in his physiology. Now, whether that means that his brain developed differently or his body produces different hormones or whatever else, it's clear that his struggle is more profound than other Vulcans because of it.

    Hell, the reason that GR made Spock half human to begin with was so he would be partially like us and partially alien. This has been integral to the character for 40+ years.

    Spock is biologically different from other Vulcans and has to struggle against his dual nature and find a balance. I don't even see how this can be debated.
     
  20. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    I know nothing can be further from canonical than a Star Trek novel that was never completed or published, but Robert J. Sawyer went so far as to say that Spock was born with far more human features than we see him with and that Sarek had them cosmetically Vulcanized in his infancy.