Why didn't Riker accept his own command for so long?

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by The Mule, Jun 20, 2008.

  1. GotNoRice

    GotNoRice Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What's not to like? He still got plenty of time in the big chair but in the end probably half the responsibility Picard has.

    Also it seemed like he enjoyed being the one to go on the away missions and not be stuck on the ship, in fact it seemed like they hammered that in during several episodes.
     
  2. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but Paramount would essentially be firing Jonathan Frakes, the series' #2 billed actor. TBoBW was written with a cliffhanger, of Picard's life in the balance, because there was a real chance that Patrick Stewart might not agree to returning for Season Four. So Riker's chance of promotion was dashed at the point where Stewart decided to stay on.
     
  3. DanCPA

    DanCPA Admiral Admiral

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    Yup, it would. But it would also be hiring a new actor to replace him.
     
  4. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    One part is the already mentioned angle of it being the Enterprise. XO on the big E might very well be much more attractive an assignment than Captain elsewhere. A lot of that has to do with Picard, but also the rest of the crew. I think Riker might have been seeing a bigger picture than he was letting on. That staying with the crew he was with would, in the end, make him a better officer all around.
    Then, there is Troi. You know he was thinking about it, off and on, the whole series.
    So although we don't tend to think of Riker as exceptionally wise, I think if he were a d20 system character, he would have something like a 15, maybe 16 Wisdom.
     
  5. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Sure, but you don't fire an actor in an ongoing series who is always professional, never fights with management, knows his lines, delivers a good performance, wants to continue, and is popular. Unless you run out of story ideas for his character, or you've come up with an amazing, award-winning way to write out the character.
     
  6. darkshadow0001

    darkshadow0001 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because Kirk told him not to in Generations. And above all, you could not turn down what James T. Kirk had to say.
     
  7. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    That and the retirement age in the 24c is bound to be pretty damn late in life, if such thing even exsists.
     
  8. MeanJoePhaser

    MeanJoePhaser Admiral

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    That the Enterprise was so frickin' important (Flagship) and Picard thought Riker was so great, is probably all that kept starfleet from forcing the issue more than they did.

    I can justify Riker hanging on after Best of Both Worlds pt. 2. Starfleet is down a lot of ships, Picard may be human again...but who's to say Starfleet trusts him 100%. They need Riker there.

    But at some point...Riker would've been reassigned, probably post GENERATIONS. That Sovereign-class Enterprise didn't get built overnight.
     
  9. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    It's likely they already had one ready and just simple renamed it Enterprise when the -D was destroyed and reassigned the -D's crew to the new E.
     
  10. RaymondJames

    RaymondJames Captain Captain

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    I am just thinking Starfleet will eventuallu pressure him into taking a promotion, and I feel he will be a stubborn ass and refuse it, holding on to being Commanding officer of the Enterprise-E.. proably the F too:lol: (i think there is anovel or two with the F and Picard was serving as CO for a while):rolleyes:
     
  11. chancellorjake

    chancellorjake Captain Captain

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    That's what I have always assumed. It seemed to be the simplest explanation.
     
  12. Iamnotspock

    Iamnotspock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Don't forget that Riker was in command of the Enterprise-D when it was destroyed, and losing the Federation flagship to a 20-year-old Klingon Bird of Prey when it could so easily have been avoided by simply ejecting the Warp Core must be a little embarrassing. It's a wonder he wasn't drummed out of Starfleet for incompetence, never mind not being offered his own command. :vulcan: ;)
     
  13. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    I haven't read any of the Titan books but I think that the in universe reason was that Riker's posting to the Federations flagship was the gold standard for XO's. Then the Dominion War came along, and I'm sure Starfleet decided that the Enterprise crew should stay together, for no other reason than fleet moral.

    Then once the War ended, and Starfleet started building new ships as fast as it could Riker either decided it was time to go or he got an order from Starfleet that said take the Titan or eventual become the oldest XO in Starfleet History.
     
  14. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    Vanyel: Your explanation makes sense as to why Riker wound up as XO on the Enteprise-E after the D was destroyed instead of receiving his own command. I'll buy that for a dollar! -- RR
     
  15. James Wright

    James Wright Commodore Commodore

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    I think it was near the end of the movie Generations that might explain his reason for staying on the E-D?

    JDW
     
  16. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    Partially correct. We have twice had an Enterprise-F mentioned in the novels. While noncanon in their appearances here are their commanders:

    Imzadi Timeline - Commodore Data was Captain of the Enterprise-F
    DS9 Millennium - Captain William T. Riker was Captain of the Enterprise-F
    (Admiral Picard was briefly attached to the Enterprise but left to command the USS Phoenix)


    While not canon there is a novel that mentions that the Enterprise-E was originally supposed to be named the USS Honorius
     
  17. blueziggy

    blueziggy Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    come on people its simple, the reason we dont hear of an offer to riker to be captain of another ship after bobw is because starfleet doesnt trust picard. picard as locutus just destroyed multiple starships and endangered billions of lives on earth. after he was removed from the borg collective starfleet couldnt just replace him, so they kept riker there as a mole watching over everything picard did. as much was said in first contact.

    after the borg threat in FC and Voyager is shown to be less of a problem, that is when riker takes command of the titan.
     
  18. James Wright

    James Wright Commodore Commodore

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    Do you think Star Fleet offered the assignment of talking with the Romulans as a way to get Riker to accept promotion and a ship of his own?

    JDW
     
  19. Mr. Fergy

    Mr. Fergy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^Yes and Riker knew it was time, his life has changed: He got married and lost a good friend in Nemesis.
     
  20. rocketscientist

    rocketscientist Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Very true. I imagine that he and Picard were both court-martialed.

    As to the question on why Riker put off commanding his ship for such a long time, I don't know if there is a good reason. When he was first presented in TNG, he was an ambitious officer, eager to rise through the ranks. It's understandable that he turned down the Drake to be the XO on the Federation's flagship, the Enterprise. Maybe even turning down the Ares makes some sense since he was only two years on the Enterprise. After that, though, by the time of BOBW, it really doesn't. Unlike Spock, who never was interested in commanding a starship, Riker was on the command track. His lack of ambition in the later seasons of TNG just didn't ever make much sense at all. In fact, as we heard from that admiral in BOBW, it was hurting his career.

    The loss of the Enterprise in GEN, however, could very well be a big ding on Riker's record. The Federation's flagship was taken out by an antique Bird of Prey that it vastly outgunned on Riker's watch, all because Geordi's VISOR was compromised, something that happened before on TNG. Riker, and maybe Picard (for leaving the ship in Riker's hands), deserves some of the responsibility for that screw-up. That may have put him down further on the Captain's list for his first command, despite his laudable achievments, particularly wrt the Borg incursion in BOBW, perhaps Riker's finest TNG moment.

    As for why Picard wasn't an Admiral, yes, there's what Kirk said to him, but I'm of the opinion that there's more to it than that. Remember, we saw that Picard never made Admiral in the possible future of All Good Things, where the events of GEN apparently never happened. That implies that there could very well be other reasons he never was promoted. I'm of the opinion that his experiences with the Borg ruined his chances at promotion. We know that SF was nervous about Picard after BOBW from Admiral Satie's reaction to him in Drumhead and the admiralty asking the Ent-E to stay away from Earth in FC. Then there's Picard deciding not to use Geordi and Data's computer virus against the Borg in I, Borg. That decision, to me, was inconceivable for Picard. In the end, SF's biggest mission is to protect the Federation from its enemies, and there is no enemy as implacable and dangerous as the Borg. The correct decision was to use the weapon and Picard put his principles ahead of his duty as a SF officer. Janeway (both Captain and Admiral) ultimately made the correct decision in Endgame. Even William Adama tried to take out the cylons in BSG with a plague. Finally, Sisko put his personal principles on hold in the great DS9 episode," In the Pale Moonlight." Adama and Sisko didn't feel good about those decisions, but they knew it was the only thing they could do (Janeway didn't look like she had any moral misgivings, which was disturbing seeing as how she knew from direct experience that the Borg drones were victims). We saw how Picard's decision not to use the virus angered Admiral Nacheyev in Descent and Picard finds himself questioning his decision. In the end, he chose Borg lives over the lives of Federation citizens who were murdered by the freed Borg at the behest of Lore. Based on those considerations, I think Picard has some enemies in the Admiralty. He still apparently had enough clout and friends though to get command of the Ent-E, but maybe they've made it plain to him that he'll never again be offered the rank of Admiral, due to security concerns and the dings on his record from I Borg and the loss of the Ent-D. Not that Picard cares that much. He clearly enjoys being a starship captain and we've seen that, unlike Kirk, who was obsessed with commanding the Eneterprise, he's capable of moving on to other projects and interests.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2008