Why did Chakotay Choose to be with seven instead of janeway?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Lorthos, Sep 6, 2011.

  1. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Recognizing prejudice is also a major theme in Trek.
    Kes loved Neelix, Dax loved Worf, Leeta loves Rom.
    Trek has shown several times that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and a doesn't determine relationships.
    Especially in this day a age, woman Janeway's age are considered the new 30.
    "A hag?"
    Seriously?? What is this, a POPEYE cartoon?:lol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2011
  2. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it is.
    I thought the question being asked was hypothetical?:shrug:
     
  3. Kass18

    Kass18 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The whole thing just disappoints me greatly...J/C forever. Thank god for fanfiction
     
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  4. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    :bolian: :bolian: :bolian:
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Braga (helped) write this episode.

    Braga was sleeping with Jeri Ryan at this point in time.

    10 thoughts.

    1. This is exactly how Braga pulled Jeri Ryan.

    2 This is how Braga wished he had pulled Ryan.

    3. This is misdirection so that future boyfriends of Ryan, or assholes trying to pull his girlfriend will pull her wrong using this 'how to' method.

    4. This was Bermans C-game to pull a hot leggy blond so that Jeri would appreciate that he had used his A-game to pull her.

    5. This was a repull by proxy, because Jeri was beginning to pull away and he was using Beltran like a muppet to assure her that he was still quite into her.

    6. Braga was pulling away and hoped to unload Jeri on Beltran, so that he could trick her into pulling Beltran and he would win the break up.

    7. This was punishment. Braga forced the pull because Jeri would never put the cap back on their toothpaste and it was ruining the bathroom counter top.

    8. Sevens brain surgery was a metaphor for the vasectomy she kept insisting that Braga should have if he loved her and he shouldn't have pulled her in the first place if his swimmers were still pulling out of their starting blocks.

    9. This was a snapshot pull for prosperity since in his old age no one might ever believe that he had pulled that.

    10. This WAS a Valentines pull.
     
  6. froot

    froot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^ :wtf: Oh, Guy.

    Was it? I dunno. I just know that's not really the story. Nor are most of the rumors about chest-thumping and all that. I think the writers just wanted to give the characters something to do, and chose very poorly.

    Word. :techman: :techman:

    Chakotay and Janeway are very close in age. Why would Chakotay consider someone his age old? Attraction or a fling can be based on looks, sure, but relationships don't last on crap like that very long. I can think of lots of "attractive" people I wouldn't want to marry. And hell, Seven's good looking, but isn't terribly emotionally mature when it comes to relationships. Isn't that reason enough to tread carefully?

    I realize you're probably quite young, so perhaps arguing about this isn't quite fair when you obviously don't really get it. I've invented straw men with less silly arguments than yours.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A Star Trek Exhibit I once saw on tour a few years back indicated that Deanna and Kathryn were the same age.

    It not the years, it's the mileage.

    It's not that Janeway was old during first run, but that it is that we were all much much much younger at the time, and we haven't lost many of the bigoted first impressions we generated back in the nineties even though in reruns Janeway is starting to look younger than we are.

    I'm shocked that Kathy isn't some old lady any more in reruns.
     
  8. starlitegirl

    starlitegirl Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Janeway looked so much better with the short hair and some more color to it. That bun didn't do her any favors. I think part of the age thing is also in how they carry themselves. Belana has all that fire and attitude, so you don't really picture her being much older. Plus, the way she doubts herself is more like a young person not someone who has gained confidence with age. Janeway has a calm certainty to her that makes her feel older. There's a confidence about her. She exudes it.
     
  9. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Because of incredible stupid writing.

    Sorry, I've tried to come up with some "Trek Universe" theory but I can't. No chemistry or attraction at all between Seven and Chakotay.
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Seven did have an attraction to Chakotay.
    It was shown in her romantic holodeck scenarios.
    However, it was Chakotay that never showed any interest in Seven.
     
  11. Lorthos

    Lorthos Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    That's true. I didn't think of that. Makes sense.
     
  12. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Seven was on the rebound from Axum in "Human Error".

    I prefer to listen to the actress's comments on the C/7 anomaly.

    http://www.trektoday.com/content/2011/03/ryan-voyager-pluses-and-minuses/

    and specifically, this passage...

    The next episode that we shot after that (Natural Law), Seven and Chakotay were stranded on some planet together. We specifically asked the producers – Robert and I – “Now, are we going to play this? Is this going to go somewhere? Because, obviously, we’d need to carry something over from…’ And they said, ‘No, no, no, no! Absolutely not. Don’t play any of that. Nothing’s going to happen.’

    Take away message from this... don't trust the producers.
     
  13. starlitegirl

    starlitegirl Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well somewhere along the way they changed their minds and it seems less natural because of it. IMHO, I don't find it completely unnatural given that there are plenty of people that can't stand each other at first that become great couples.

    It's clear they were warming up to each other. He was encouraging her to look at things from his point of view and she was evolving because of that. So there's that, but the part that is off to me when I look at it objectively is that there was no ah-ha moment on Chakotay's end. We never see him actually come to a point where he develops feelings for her. We see it from her in the holodeck. She was exploring. But there was never that moment, like when Paris and Belana were floating in space. And it could have been done easily. A scene where she's injured and he realizes he's more concerned for her than he expected. The way the doc fixes these people up, that would have been easy to do. The lack of this type of moment from Chakotay does give it a contrived feel that I choose to omit from my brain.

    I don't know. Sometimes the writers really pushed the whole suspension of disbelief factor a bit too far. Maybe they figured since it's scifi the audience will go along with ANYTHING, which implies that the really don't understand their audience all that much.
     
  14. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

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    I think the writers thought ANY man would be willing to jump Seven's bones, so why bother with explaining why Chakotay, who didn't like her and usually was condescending to her, suddenly changed his mind? And this is what is so irritating about it. They are both totally out of character, and the dialogue is actually painful to listen to. This relationship makes George Lucas's awful pairings look like a wildly successful romance novel by comparison. :lol:
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The sad thing is that all of the 4 dozen pools about who was going to bag the Borgette first or when she was going to give it up to the Indian, were rendered moot as soon as they got back to the AQ when holodeck time and replicator rations suddenly lost all scarcity and value whatsoever.

    I feel personal woe for Chuckles since any wager he thought he was going to win to offset the horror of coupling with such an emotional retard was also suddenly zerosum.

    Imagine you thought you were going to win 7 large on an under over from the big fight, but just before you're due to pick up the purse, your Bookie has a heart attack and passes on.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2011
  16. creek_chub

    creek_chub Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This. I didn't watch the series while it was on, and I spoiled myself horribly when I finally did see it, so I knew C/7 was coming (and I wasn't looking forward to it) but even prepared for it the whole thing seemed to come out of nowhere. And hearing them speak together? I literally cringed.
     
  17. Admiral James Kirk

    Admiral James Kirk Writer Admiral

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    Even when producers do try to build something it doesn't always work. Take Worf/Troi for example. That had ample buildup in season 7 of TNG but it didn't really work because there was no romantic or even sexual chemistry between Dorn and Sirtis. So even though they built to it the pairing still didn't work.

    I also point to DS9 and Odo/Kira. That was built to for a good five or so years before it happened and there was pretty good chemistry between Vistor and Auberjonois but once they got together it all sort of fizzled. Odo/Kira worked together as an unrequited romance.

    On the other hand I thought the Trip/T'Pol pairing on Enterprise worked though I thought the build to that was pretty hamfisted and obvious.

    I also enjoyed the Worf/Jadzia and Riker/Troi 'ships. I had been rooting for Worf/Jadzia since before Worf ended up on DS9. When I first saw Blood Oath I realized that Jadzia and Word would be perfect for each other and cursed the TV gods that they were on two different shows and such a coupling could never take place. Who knew? :)

    The Riker/Troi 'ship was handled clumsily in the TNG movies but Frakes/Sirtis had such undeniable chemistry that I thought it made up for all the writing deficiancies in those movies.

    At the end of the day I don't really think Trek handles romance all that well. It does a damn good job about romantacizing space exploration and adventure but it really is shit at 'ships.
     
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  18. Rojixus

    Rojixus Commander Red Shirt

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    So I guess you could say Star Trek handles some ships better than others! :)
     
  19. Admiral James Kirk

    Admiral James Kirk Writer Admiral

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    Yeah. That's a good way of condensing my very long winded post into it's basic meaning. :)
     
  20. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I found that Sisko/Yates worked very well too.
    Even Rom/Leeta was fun due to the humor but all in all, I think you nailed it. I think they basically put C/7 together because they didn't want to leave Chakotay with outline for his future. It just shows you can't suddenly put effort into a character you've ignored for the last 4 years.