Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by milojthatch, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    By the standards of big budget movies, both NuTreks are excellent movies.

    But I'm going to judge anything with the name 'Trek' on it by Star Trek standards.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I think both Abramsverse films are good movies by Star Trek standards. :techman:
     
  3. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Agreed. I got started on TOS, and the Abrams movies feel like they have that same magic.
     
  4. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Okay, that was a bit snarky, I admit. But it did get kinda tiresome and repetitive after a few years--especially for those of us who had no nostalgic connection to the original show.

    "Yes, yes, we get it. You liked the old show better and this new one is a disgrace. Now can we just get back to talking about this week's episode . . . ."
     
  5. Saito S

    Saito S Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I disagree with this, actually. Reason being:
    For my money, this is nothing new, and didn't start with Abrams. With the exception of TMP and TVH, all of the Trek films have been action-adventure pieces set in space, with the ultimate goal being to defeat a singular, identifiable "villain" who is at the center of it all. Some are good, some are not so good, some are just plain stupid, and none can match the best of the various TV series for depth, for a more serious, cerebral science fiction story, for a sense that there's more to it than JUST an entertaining sci-fi adventure romp (excepting TMP, which had that very notion as its core concept, but failed in execution). The Abrams movies are no different. You've got STXI, which is fun to watch but has a plotline that's dumber than a brick (I wouldn't put it anywhere near the top of my list of Trek movies, but it would easily best the likes of TFF or NEM), and STID, which was a solid action-adventure piece with just a bit of a social/political "message" going on (and I would put it near the top of my list). The only major shift that has occurred when it comes to films I-X vs. the two Abrams films are that the budgets are bigger and the sensibilities more modern.

    If you are saying that people are entitled to watch any new content that they wish, form an opinion, and post here (or in other appropriate places) about said opinion, even if it's an extremely negative opinion, then I agree completely.

    But, if what Shaka was referring to were the "haters", i.e. people that keep bringing up how Abrams Trek films have destroyed the very idea of intelligent Star Trek every time said movies are discussed at all, or people who compare Abrams to the devil, or - my favorite - the people who slagged on STXI and/or STID before the movie in question was even out, then... well, they still have a right to post here, sure. But it is really damn tiresome.
    Making the same differentiation that I just made in reply to BigJake: I very much doubt Greg meant to say, or even imply, that it's pointless for you to engage in a discussion about nuBSG while holding the opinion that it was terrible (and to voice that opinion in the discussion). The word "rage" in his post was, I would imagine, quite intentional, and he was talking about the same people I was above, who fly off the handle into over-the-top histrionics if anyone so much as mentions that the new incarnation of BSG (or Trek or... whatever, this could apply to a huge number of other franchises in various mediums that have been refreshed/rebooted over the years) might be better in their eyes vs. the old incarnation. Or people who insist on entering thread after thread despite having nothing to say other than "I hate this", inserting themselves into a conversation about the newer incarnation just to remind everyone that they hate it.

    Of course, I don't mean to speak for Greg Cox here, he's perfectly free to correct me if I'm way off in my interpretation of the quoted post.
    As I said above, I think STXI is "okay" by Trek movie standards; middle of the road. Whereas STID is among the best.

    As for Trek movies vs. "big budget movies", I don't tend to make that kind of distinction, really. Because on the one hand, there are certainly plenty of big-budget movies that couldn't hold a candle to even the worst of the worst of Trek films (i.e., Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen), and on the other, there are some big-budget, high-profile movies that are leagues ahead of any Trek film (i.e., Inception).
     
  6. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They obviously spent the entire run of the TNG movie franchise trying to figure out ways to make Big Dumb Action movies on the relative cheap with that cast. But NuTrek represents a commitment to that ideal on a whole new level, and a full and deliberate segue into Star Wars-style fantasy in a whole new way. (The movies go well out of their way to signpost this in more than just the dollars spent on visual effects: it's why, for example, they don't just de-emphasize the 'science' part of the science fiction, but are deliberately in-your-face silly about it. It isn't subtle.)
     
  7. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Come on, you should know. Of course I jest.

    It's a TrekBBS survival mechanism; the minute I get serious about Star Trek, I become an asshole.
     
  8. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's ironic, but even with the problems I have with the Nu Trek movies, I like them far more than the last two TNG movies.

    I can never get through a single viewing of either Insurrection or Nemesis. NuTrek is great by comparison.

    However with the Nu trek, (or any movie) the problem it's just hard to ignore things that don't seem right.

    Like Kirk going from cadet straight to captain of his own ship along with his fellow cadets.

    It's just going to seem stupid to some people/fans.

    Or Spock, who as a Vulcan, is supposed to be logical, and nearly emotionless, most of the time. Yet he's always losing it--in the first two movies.

    That infamous, "Kaahhnnn"!!! :lol:


    On a side note, Steven Spielberg is predicting that the big budget, mega movie trend is going to crash because of the crazy spending on movies with little substance.
     
  9. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I expect he is correct.
     
  10. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Believe it or not, I have been in the reverse situation of loving the new interpretation of a character/setting while most of the other people who saw it slagged it unmercifully and insisted it was crap.

    I'm referring to the Crow franchise. I've read the original graphic novel, I've seen the first 3 movies, and the TV series. The first movie was superb, and I'm so glad they were able to finish it despite Brandon Lee's tragic fatal accident on the set. The second movie was okay - not as good as the first, but I like it because it is a legitimate sequel to the first. The other movies are best forgotten, and you'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who would disagree with that assessment.

    The difference is the TV series. I absolutely love The Crow: Stairway to Heaven. Was Mark Dacascos a Brandon Lee clone? No, of course not. But did he do a credible interpretation of both Eric Draven and his Crow alter-ego? Definitely. Was the supporting cast good? Most of them were wonderful, even the characters who only appeared once or twice. Sometimes whole unspoken conversations could be conveyed with a single change in facial expression or tone of voice, and that inspired me to write copious numbers of pages of fanfic, to "fill in the gaps" and imagine all kinds of detailed backstories for these characters. Was it unfair that the show got dumped because of a series of business decisions and the new owners of the production company decided to scrap the show even though it had been renewed for a second season? Hell, yes.

    And yet I've met fewer than a half-dozen people who feel as I do. Most prefer to keep complaining that the TV series wasn't dark enough, it wasn't violent enough, it wasn't about revenge anymore. They keep missing the layers and nuances, and the "morality play" aspects that manage not to be so preachy and "clobber the audience with it because the audience is just too stupid to figure it out for themselves." And they don't like the idea that the TV Eric Draven can be noble and courageous, but at the same time he can be just as much a fallible, selfish jerk as the next person, given provocation or a particularly frustrating set of circumstances.

    So yeah, I've been on the side of defending instead of criticizing. It doesn't mean I'm going to bow to popular opinion and change my mind, though.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I will love all future incarnations of Star Trek, even the musical.
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I like "The Way to Eden" too. ;) :techman:
     
  13. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I really want to see a Star Trek musical now.

    Make it so! Make it so, make it so, make it sooooooooooo!!!!
     
  14. nureintier

    nureintier Commander Red Shirt

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    This.

    This also.

    And, as others have said, it's not a Trek thing. See any other fandom. Star Wars comes to my mind, and so does the Silent Hill video game and movie series.

    I think if people hated it more than they liked it, they wouldn't be discussing it on a Trek board. If a person despises one series,they probably love another series, and maybe just feel resentful that some series don't appeal to them as much. I know I've complained about some aspects of the new movies, but that doesn't stop me from watching them and buying copies on every available format. It's just that, because I know the older movies so well that I can't help but compare things and discuss what I like and dislike. I think the OP is placing too much emphasis on the "hate" aspect.

    for example, I have friends who love TNG but can't stand TOS. Why? Not just because they grew up with TOs in the 80s, but also because TOS was different than TNG and lacked some of the things they liked most about TNG. Same with other series and the movies. Even with something like ST:V, you have to feel passionately enough about the series and movies or you won't even be bothered getting upset about not liking a film. And all that comes down to personal taste, but I think it's also that if you have invested a lot of time and energy in watching a series, you're going to talk about both the good and the bad.

    Anyway, I don't think it's so much that Trek fans are "hateful" as that they have strong feelings, good and bad, about certain aspects of the series or certain movies or whatever.
     
  15. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    How Much For Just the Planet? (an operetta in prose form) was written decades ago. :p
     
  16. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    By the late John M. Ford, of course.
     
  17. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    I hadn't known he died. :(
     
  18. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Many years ago.

    At the risk of going OT for a second, his alternate-history fantasy novel, The Dragon Waiting, is also worth checking out. As I recall, it won the World Fantasy Award way back when.

    In terms of accepting new versions of old favorites, I confess that I've never been able to bring myself to watch the Nicholas Cage remake of The Wicker Man, because the original with Christopher Lee is one of my favorite movies, but that's partly because I've never heard anything good about it. I like to think that I would be open-minded enough to give the remake the benefit of the doubt--if it hadn't been universally panned by the entire world.
     
  19. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I'm pretty sure in was panned on other worlds and in a few alternate realities as well.
     
  20. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I gotta say about hate.. I bowed out of Star Wars fandom which I was dabbling in for a while because of the hate. I couldn't hack it anymore, the rants about the prequels, the division between those that didn't hate them and those that thought those that didn't hate them were idiots. I think some of that may have calmed down now but it was just too much hard work. I'd hate to see that happen to Trek, though so far I don't think that's been the case. I've also personally introduced many people to the varying series who wanted to see more after seeing their very first Trek which was the JJ films.. and some of these people have now watched everything!