Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by milojthatch, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Bingo, it is TATV that should be SHAT ON FROM ORBIT.

    I love all the other ones, or love parts of them enough to love them enough to not hate them.
     
  2. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Shatner would have probably improved it, yes! ;)
     
  3. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I'll have you know that I dearly, dearly llllll...

    I lllll.... I really llll... lllll...

    ...


    Okay, you're right.
     
  4. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :guffaw:

    Yeah even I couldn't fake that one!
     
  5. Rarewolf

    Rarewolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like Threshold. Paris pulling his own tongue out is a geninuely WTF moment.

    I suppose my own problem with it might be if the side effects can be cured that easily, and you can be home in seconds, why aren't you home already?
     
  6. thumbtack

    thumbtack Commodore Commodore

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    I think a lot of the hostility comes from the (justified) feeling of helplessness, or being ignored, when you find yourself in the minority. Fans have been yelling on the internet for years, to no avail.

    When Into Darkness finished second in CNN.com's Favorites of 2013 poll, Paramount took out an ad congratulating itself. Yet, no notice is given to events like "Orci Strikes Back" despite the very best efforts of that minority to play it up as loudly as possible.

    Then, there is the indignity of being told you've aged right out of the target demographic; that you're not as important to the long term health of the IP. "But my decades of loyalty should make me more important than those stupid teenagers!", they shout.

    Of course, if you are in the target demographic, and you hold the popular opinion you can find some small measure of notice. Looks like Marvel will be making a significant change to Iron Man 3 in a short epilogue to be on the Thor 2 blu-ray.
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Justified feelings of helplessness because of.. new additions to a 50 year old franchise?
     
  8. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    What in the world does this have to do with the discussion?
     
  9. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I could see people feeling "helpless" if they're really hoping for Paramount to listen to them. (Which, you know, it isn't happening unless you have some sort of large organized campaign or something.) I hope not too many people are expecting that from their ramblings on a message board.

    Personally, insofar as "being in a minority" has ever really affected me it was mostly in the early days of trying to work out what was going on with ST09 as a cultural phenomenon (my Personal Journey being not unlike this guy's after I followed rave reviews promising me an "intelligent" reboot and then... well). Frankly I feel much less in the "minority" as time passes, the whole thing has actually become a pretty fascinating exercise in trendspotting and learning about contemporary Hollywood. I'm mostly just curious now to see if my instincts about the current franchise prove sound.
     
  10. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    NuSpock WILL become supreme ruler of New Romulus.

    We're talking about our instincts now, right?
     
  11. Botany Bay

    Botany Bay Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bingo. Well said.

    The Star Trek that the over 30's crowd grew up with is finished. Sad, but luckily we have hundreds of hours of 'our' Trek to re-watch, novels are still being published, fan films of astonishing quality are still being made, and places like this are still thriving even in the Twitter age.
     
  12. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes.

    And nuSpock will be replaced by a talking cat. I'm all about talking cats this week. Instinct, baby!
     
  13. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Caped Trek Mod Admiral

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    Yeah, those 1701-D fans really screwed the franchise, didn't they? :p

    When TNG premiered in 1987, some TOS fans were in the minority, and they yelled. When Star Wars premiered in 1977, some TOS fans were offended and they yelled. When Enterprise made it's debut, fans were upset too.

    It happens. It happens with comics too - and other film and movie franchises too. This isn't anything new.
     
  14. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We all love Star Trek. That much goes without saying. We wouldn't even BE here talking about it so much if we didn't. ;)

    What you're misconstruing as being 'hate' is, I feel, in actual fact simply a case of open, critical faculty being employed. We like to discuss what we don't like as much as what we do. A nicely balanced opinion, that can lead to some passionate and interesting debate.

    Besides, sad but true: nearly all of Star Trek is now officially *old*. Some guys on here have seen it so many times before... it becomes necessary to dissect it, take it apart, deconstruct and reconstruct our opinions of it... if only to provide fresh insights, and to allay any sense of ennui about the material.

    It isn't "hate". The ability to cast a critical eye over something that you love as much as we all evidently love Star Trek is very much an indication of a healthy mind. Not a bad thing by any measure. :)

    To be honest, I'd be far more concerned about any discussion which throws absolute praise upon something, no matter what...
     
  15. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    True, most "hate" is just open criticism. On the other hand, I have seen posters here who actively hate elements of a show, a whole series, or certain movies, and it's more than a bit disturbing to witness. I figure in cases like that, the latest movie/series doesn't jibe with the carefully constructed fantasy they have created. This fantasy is where they live, and these shows/movies threaten that fantasy world, and cause them to react in an emotionally unbalanced way. Most of what we see isn't hate, but when we do see it, holy shit, is it crazy!
     
  16. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I hate Star Trek because it's terrible.

    All of it.
     
  17. Robbiesan

    Robbiesan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Your avatar of Matthew Lesko is disturbing. When he originally published his rather staid book on acquiring government grants, I would bet that mostly it was aimed at poor academics trying desperately to find money for their PhDs.

    Then he evolved in a rather bizarre huckster.

    Surely you jest about Star Trek...right?:shrug:
     
  18. milojthatch

    milojthatch Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    First, who is "OP?" I'm assuming you mean me. I'm milojthatch.

    Second, if I buy into what you are saying, I've only been "part of the problem" since 2009. There was litteraly nothing about Star Trek I felt passionate about in a negative way pre-Abrams.

    Finally, if you actually payed attention to my post, my admitting my distaste of JJ-Trek was not so much an opportunity to once again slam the new series so much as to find common ground with others who hated aspect of Trek pre-Abrams. Kind of a "this is why I don't like (fill in the blank), is this the same reason you feel the way you do about (fill in the blank)?" Further, while pre-JJ-Trek I never got all the hate, heaven forbid I come off as a hypocrite and excuse my own modern rumblings.

    It was also a question of why dis so passionately against things that are 20+ years old? As I explained, the primary reason I may slam the JJ-Trek films is the far out there hope that if enough fans agree with me and do the same, the power that be may notice and put an end to it. What's the point however of slamming a show that is clearly over? Or slamming a person who has nothing to do with Trek anymore.

    You know, I may slam JJ Abrams, but for me at least, I'm slamming JJ Abrams the writer/director/producer, not the man. I've heard "fans" say some really horrid things in their passionate ramblings about guys like say Rick Berman for example that go well beyond his creative choices on Star Trek 10+ years ago. I don't feel that's cool and no, I don't feel that in that area I'm part of any "problem."

    LOL! :rommie:

    I agree, but part of my point is that fans are not just slamming new stuff, but large sections of "the good old days." Why?

    I agree, "venting" is probably a better word. Maybe this is how various groups of fans have felt over the years, but I know for me with Star Trek, I felt betrayed by Paramount with JJ-Trek. I've been a fan for far more of my life than not, spend countless hours on Star Trek, spend tons of money on Star Trek, and defended it during against non-fans and fans a like. And then here comes JJ-Trek and I'm basically told, not only is this not your fathers Star Trek, but it's not yours either. We want new fans, you don't matter any more. I felt like JJ Abrams and especially Paramount were giving me a huge middle finger.

    Is this how TOS fans felt when TNG came out? Or TNG fans when Voyager came out? Maybe, and maybe while I don't fully get why they hate those shows, maybe I am now starting to understand their need to vent?

    Your welcome. I have a theory that most of the so-called JJ-Trek fans are not the majority of the Trek fan base. At best they are half of the fan base, and then even most of that are fair-weather fans who might have "loved" the 2009 film but turned on the 2013 film.

    I have to wonder sometimes as well, do they really love the 2009 film or do they love the idea that society isn't mocking them for the moment because JJ Abrams made Star Trek "cool?" I also think most of the so-call JJ-Trek fans are more vocal online (where it's safer) then out in public, and past seeing the films and buying the DVD/Blu-ray, don't seem to show their love the same way fans of the pre-Abrams era have and still do. But I could be wrong... (Probably not.)

    I agree, this discussion is meant for the whole franchise, which is why I wrote it in the General Star Trek board. Take another look?
     
  19. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Or, crazy idea: maybe plenty of us old-school fans actually like the reboot for its own sake?

    Seriously, I appreciate that you're phrasing this in a cautious and civil way, but you're still falling into trap of suggesting that no real Trek fan could really like the reboot--and if they say they do, they must be fooling themselves or are just trying to fit in with the cool crowd.

    Why not do people the courtesy of taking them at their word when it comes to their own opinions? And assuming that they actually know their own minds?

    As for the demographic thing, why take it personally? It's by no means "disloyal" to us old-timers to acknowledge that we are not the only audience that matters--or even the most important one anymore. Star Trek started out as a prime-time show on NBC. It was always intended for general audiences, not a small, dedicated cult.

    That's not a slap in the face to us lifelong fans. That's reality. Speaking as a fifty-plus Trekkie who got hooked on Trek way back in 1966, I understand that I am by no means the prime demographic anymore and I'm fine with that. Time moves on, generations come and go . . .that's just the way of things. To resent it or take it personally is, as they say, "highly illogical."

    And, trust me, I'm not saying this because I want to sound "cool" or was ever embarrassed by being a Trekkie. You're talking to somebody who has been proudly flying his fan flag for his entire life. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  20. urbankringle

    urbankringle Commodore Commodore

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    ^^ With that in mind, a couple of comments.

    I like Star Trek. I watched TOS over and over and over in reruns in the early 70s and TNG first run every week, along with DS9 and VOY for the most part. I didn't get to see much of ENT, but that's life.

    I like Star Trek movies. I own all of them and have them at my fingertips ready to watch at a moment's notice. Some I like more than others, but I tend to take each for its own merits.

    As a fan of around 40 years, the movies and this forum are about the extent of my fanaticism. I know a fair bit of trivia, because I like trivia. But I don't have collectables or costumes, or even attend cons (except for one in 1975).

    As a group, we're pretty lucky to have Trek in production for all these years. It would have been easy for TPTB to let it die at any point along the way. A lot of fans of other properties don't have anywhere near the wealth of material to choose from.

    I think the division inside fandom is a little silly, but that's just one casual fan's opinion.