Why are Trekkies so Hateful of Star Trek?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by milojthatch, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. milojthatch

    milojthatch Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    It's an interesting question, why are Trekkies so full of hate of (fill in the blank) Star Trek film or show? And I ask this question knowing full well I'm guilty of this ever since JJ-Trek came on the scene, but why are we all so full of hate?

    Seriously, you look at any of the boards just on this forum, and it's amazing how many of them are focused on what the various fans hate about Star Trek more than what they love about Star Trek. I see threads and posts about how much some people hates Enterprise or Star Trek V or even a behind the scenes talent like Rick Berman. Just about every show and film and person connected to Trek are dogged on, with maybe a stronger focus on 1990's Trek and onward.

    Why is that? I don't know about other fans, but for myself, pre-JJ Abrams, while I'll admit that some films and episodes were better than others, I really just loved it all and accepted each new adventures as the further expansion of the Star Trek Universe. I appreciated the work that Gene Roddenberry, Rick Berman and all the other members of the cast and crew put into each new episode or film, and today, still feel that all of these people really did put their hearts and souls into the work. I never felt that any of the people felt it was work making Star Trek (save possibly some of the various actors), but rather it was an enjoyable part of their lives getting to make something they clearly loved with people that became like family to them. To me it is really not surprising that many of these same people still keep in touch with each other today all these years after their run of Star Trek ended. They loved their jobs, and it showed in each and every Star Trek production.

    I appreciated all of that and the general tone found in the franchise as a whole. To me, while each film and show had it's own tone that made that particular production unique, there was still an over all tone found in the whole franchise.

    Then came JJ Trek and for the first time, I actually found something with the "Star Trek" name on it that I hated. I think (without writing a book or going into crazy detail), the main reason I hate JJ-Trek is due to the fact that literally nothing I loved about Star Trek pre-Abrams is found in these new films, or if it is, it's a poor man's version. I think the reason why I've become very vocal against it online really comes down to the fact that I want it to go away and never come back and the crazy hope that if enough fans feel the same way and are also vocal about it, the powers that be at Paramount might listen. I'm not dumb, I fully realize that the Star Trek I loved may never come back, but I also realize that if there is any kind of chance for that to happen somehow anyway, JJ-Trek has to go. I don't actually care that some actually like, or even love JJ-Trek, good for them. All I care about is that MY Star Trek comes back.

    So, is that maybe why Star Trek fans are so full hate for so much of the Star Trek franchise? Each one of us has found a part of it that we really love and want that version to keep going and get grumpy when it doesn't? I honestly have no idea how I'll feel in so many years after JJ-Trek is ended, but I feel it's kind of silly how many "fans" on here still complain about how Captain Kirk died almost 20 years ago! Or how William Shatner directed a Star Trek film that is 25 years old. And guys, Gene Roddenberry is dead and Rick Berman is retired. If you really hated (fill in the blank) Star Trek production, good news, it all ended a really long time ago! At this point, why dwell on what you hated about the past and neglect what you loved? Or is there enough that you loved about Star Trek to actually mention it?

    After the first JJ-Trek film, I tried in vain to created first a group on Facebook, then a page for Star Trek fans that like me, felt Star Trek ended in 2005. The only rule was that we were not going to sit around and bash on Abrams. Rather, I wanted it to be about what we all loved about 1966-2005 Star Trek. It amazed me how quickly and easily it not only turned into "how much I hate JJ-Trek" but also "how much I hate (fill in the blank) Star Trek from (fill in the year) pre-Abrams. I finally closed both the group and the page as it was getting to depressing. It was like pulling teeth to get anyone to talk about what they loved about Star Trek!

    So my question to the fans on this board is, why? Why are we so vocal about what we hate, but not love about Star Trek?
     
  2. desfem79

    desfem79 Lieutenant Commander

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    I see both here, but then if people are accustomed to Roddernberry/Berman Trek, then it makes sense they may not like Abrams Trek.

    It's self-evident Paramount reckon Robbernberry/Berman Trek needed revamping, and it makes sense. TNG had high ratings, but then the average Joe is not a Trekkie. So Abrams Trek caters for the widest possible audience. may seem hollow to some, but Paramount, WB, Mirimax, Universal and the other big studios make films for profit primarily, so more sales means more potential profits. ;)
     
  3. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's not just Trekkies who are like this. I've seen it a lot with Whovians and other fan groups.

    Reminds me of that Nathaniel Hawthorne story "The Birth-Mark," where a scientist married a beautiful woman but became obsessed with the one flaw in her appearance and ultimately killed her in an attempt to remove the birthmark from her face.

    There's Star Trek stuff I don't like, and I'll say so if someone mentions it, but I mostly try to forget it.
     
  4. milojthatch

    milojthatch Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I'm not a Dr Who fan, but my wife is, so I know what you are talking about.

    I have no idea since I didn't really pay attention to such things before the internet really took off, but is this a new phenomenon in the internet age with fans, or has it always been like this?
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Nothing's changed, milojthatch. Every incarnation of Trek has sprouted passionate detractors going all the way back to The Motion Picture - the only difference is which side of the fence you find yourself on now.

    You might find this thread of interest, where some negative Wrath of Khan reviews from Interstat in '82/'83 had few names swapped around by Opus (Harve Bennett becomes J.J. Abrams, for example) and read almost exactly like the negative Into Darkness comments you find here on the BBS and elsewhere (Bennett doesn't like or understand Trek, it's a shallow Star Wars shoot-em-up, killing Spock was hack writing, the characterizations are terrible etc). I'm afraid this has all happened before and it will happen again - but now thanks to the internet, it's much easier to complain. No more writing letters, posting them and getting it published by the editor of a letterzine - just tap away on your keyboard or phone and it's there for all to see in less than a second.

    EDIT: HERE is one of the fanlore.org pages with the Interstat letters.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2014
  6. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I love 99% of Trek. Nothing wrong with mouthing off about the 1% now and then. :)
     
  7. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    OP you're part of the problem. You complain about 'haters', then admit you are one. You complain about STV haters calling them "silly" but say similar negative things about JJ-Trek.

    The problem is people like you. And me. If you think its a problem, then stop complaining about JJ Trek.

    There's TNG/DS9/ENT/TOS here where you can spread the love. There's plenty of opportunities to say good things about Trek. You can just stay way from the Abrams movies board.

    I personally don't think the 'hate' is that much of a problem. If you love something you're going to be passionate about it. And its a a relative thing IMO. I might complain about INS but I'd much rather watch it than almost any other non-Star Trek movie.
    For instance I really dislike Star Wars I, II and III but I don't care enough about Star Wars to write about it to anyone.
     
  8. flakfrist123

    flakfrist123 Ensign Newbie

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    Exactly. :techman:

    "Why do people hate Star Trek? You must hate Star Trek because you like JJ Trek. I want people to talk about how much they like the old Trek. I hate JJ Trek. Here's why. . . "
     
  9. Captain April

    Captain April Commander Red Shirt

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    I'd say I hate the last Star Trek film, but I couldn't really see what was happening through all the lens flare. :rolleyes:
     
  10. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't buy the whole premise of this question.

    Let's take the usual bum-flufferies about how "fans are loyal to their own interpretations of [this or that]" as read, I see there are others who have basically pointed this out already. This is basically true but for my money it just scratches the surface, it's uninteresting as a fundamental answer to what you're asking.

    And I'm not going to rant about how thoroughly clueless anyone would have to be -- about either How Geeks Work or How Debate Works, take your pick -- to imagine themselves entitled to demand that people just stop complaining about their favoured little piece of the brand. Except I just kind of did, but now I'm done.

    And yes, there are people who genuinely rise to the level of actual hate in their feelings about this or that aspect of a property or the people who like it, but they're outliers: the term "hate" as applied to fandom is more frequently either humorous overstatement or absurd bathos.

    The thing about "fandom" is that it consists of people who are sufficiently fascinated by a particular brand or property to a) exhibit interest in most incarnations of it, whether they strictly-speaking "like" them or not, and to b) actually attempt to think about it in depth and to pick apart how it works and why. Most of those who are sufficiently completist about it to be called a "fan" (whether they're a "casual fan" who watches the show and movies but doesn't go further, or the truly "hardcore fan" who, say, learns Klingon and kits out their home as a replica of the Enterprise) exhibit some admixture of these two tendencies.

    Sci-fi fandoms attract a lot of people -- let's call them "nerds" -- with a pronounced tendency toward b). You are one of those people. And no, you are not a "problem" to be solved and you aren't a "hater," you are simply a personality type prone to be analytical and try to figure out how the stories you love work, and why you don't love the stories you don't love. It turns out that one way that people figure out what works with stories is trying to figure out what doesn't, and so they talk about that. And they come to places like this, and I suppose to the Facebook group you tried to start, to do it.

    Of course there are other people who lean toward pole a) who are just interested in neutral appreciation and who don't go in for all this argument and analysis business, and are even actively irritated by it. But mostly, on any sufficiently large forum, there are room for both. It's only the more extreme types of a) -- who become obsessively shrill and defensive and hostile at the very notion of anyone showing Disloyalty to the Brand -- and the most extreme types of b) (who can be prone to tactlessness and/or overstatement and/or over-analysis and/or warped analyses born of isolated habits of living and thinking) who will generate the bitterest forms of noise.

    Finding the perfect mixture of mere appreciation with the tendency toward analysis is probably going to be pretty hard -- you'd have to moderate a forum very heavily to achieve it, and at the end of such a process would probably be left with about five like-minded people talking to themselves. This sounds to be what frustrated you about your Facebook group. Fortunately one of the strengths of the TrekBBS that I've seen is that it actually provides plenty of scope for both laid-back conversations about what you like and vigorous debate about what you don't. I've certainly found both here, and if an argumentative bastiche like me can manage it, I'm sure you can. :bolian:
     
  11. Wadjda

    Wadjda Commander Red Shirt

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    I love to make fun of certain shows and ignore them.
     
  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Every fandom has fans who are resentful of the new material in favor of the "good old days." In some cases, it's considered normal fare to hate new product when it's first aired and released and continue hating it until five years has passed, then it gets re-watched and decided it's not as bad as everyone made it out to be and hella lot better than the current crap being churned out.

    It's just a thing. Everyone has their things.
     
  13. Robbiesan

    Robbiesan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't see it as hate. I see a community of people who mostly enjoy the show, but over time are able to criticize it as well as praise. I'd guess that overwhelmingly people enjoy the shows and films.

    Actually the word Trekkie is confounding since when I began watching the show faithfully, fans called themselves Trekkers. Trekkers read science fiction of all kinds, often were well-read in diverse topics, often supplied social commentary as well as cultural, knew history, etc. They discussed Star Trek within those kinds of context.

    Trekkies were people who doned rubber Vulcan ears and had difficulty getting a date on Saturday night. That's actually an aspect of the now infamous William Shatner Saturday Night Live appearance that raised the rancor of his fans.
    http://www.myvideo.de/watch/127096/Star_Trek_TOS_William_Shatner_SNL_Get_A_Life

    I guess at some point people thought the distinction of terms was no longer important. The few times I've criticized the show it's been in fun while still enjoying the show for the most part. Mostly aimed at William Shatner's early acting ability...and singing.
     
  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think most of the 'hating' that goes on is really 'venting'. It creates the impression that people are more angry about something than they really are because they came online to vent about something they're currently angry about.

    Also, when you are told you're going to get more of something you love, you expect it to be good in a similar way as that thing you love. It's the same with Final Fantasy 13. It's not a bad game, it's 'okay'. Too long a tutorial, too many cutscene interruptions, some writing issues, but decent in general. Just it's nowhere near as good as whichever Final Fantasy game you grew up playing, so you feel it broke the promise of quality it made to you by being called 'Final Fantasy', and get angry enough to come online to vent about it.
     
  15. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Well, it's nowhere near as good because your memories have brought it back to you more fondly, on a wave of nostalgia. That's why as people get older, they talk about how things "used to be," before such and such or so and so came along and "ruined" it.
     
  16. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dunno if that's operative so much these days. We live in an age where it's far easier to compare the New Thing with the Old Thing side-by-side in the cold light of day than it's ever been.
     
  17. SpocksLeftEar

    SpocksLeftEar Lieutenant

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    I thank you from the bottom of my heart for these words. I:techman:
    I began to think that I was the only one having SERIOUS problems with JJ-Trek. (and with JJ in general as well. "Lost" was years of wasted time for a cheap and stupid solution that explained nothing, "Alias" was simply confusing and annoying, and I really don't care for anything this man does - I'm not so much into Star Wars, but Ep IV to VI are okay, but when JJ-Star Wars premieres I will probably start to LOVE Ep I to III.
    JJ-Trek was the one thing the world didn't need.
     
  18. Robbiesan

    Robbiesan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That's actually spot on about Abrams and Lost. Who didn't think, "What... is this going to be about his last fleeting thoughts as he's dying ala An Occurance at Owl Creek Bridge by Ambrose Bierce?"...and from the very first episodes.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Occurrence_at_Owl_Creek_Bridge

    Perhaps Abrams was the wrong person for the job especially since he admitted he wasn't a fan, not a bad thing to say, just an odd one that must have made the marketing people think, "What an undisciplined person to say such thing! How do we spin this positively now?".
     
  19. Rarewolf

    Rarewolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    After seeing it for years in Doctor Who fandom but never getting it, as much as l loathed Enterprise with a passion at the time, I was at least greatful for that - it allowed me to understand how fans could become bashers.

    So in other words nostalgia isn't as good as it used to be.
     
  20. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nah, I'm betting the marketing people asked him to say stuff like that as much as possible. It effectively drove home the message that this wasn't going to be Trek made for those Dirty Trekker Nerds.