Why all the 'These are the Voyages...' hate?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by asl, Aug 15, 2014.

  1. Last Redshirt

    Last Redshirt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Location:
    On the Starship Enterprise
    Because it wasn't an Enterprise story, it was a TNG story about a decade too late. The main premise wasn't about Archer trying to write a speech and help his friend and the decommissioning of the Enterprise, it's about Riker playing on the holodeck trying to figure out what to do about The Pegasus. The main cast of Enterprise were secondary to Riker and Troi, and that shouldn't have happened in any episode, much less the finale.

    The best part in the episode was, really, the ending, with the voiceovers of Kirk, Picard, and Archer. That was a proper wrapup.
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Why do I have a problem with this episode?

    Because it isn't connected in anyway to the arc Enterprise had at the time. "Terra Prime" is one of my favorite ENT episodes, and quite honestly would be a better finale, in my opinion. The fact that the death of Trip and T'Pol's child or the human racism that occurred does not even factor in to the finale. Um, that was some pretty important character stuff there. Do you mind not leaving it out of the picture, please?

    Secondly, how they killed off Trip is a big mistake. Some may complain about revealing that a character is going to die somehow cheapens the death, and I will agree that is a tight rope to walk. However, the fact that the finale involves a main character getting killed by criminals because he ran in to a situation that should have been handled by security or even the MACOs, which Riker dresses as in the episode.

    Finally, as many have mentioned, it forces TNG in there for no reason. Ok, a small reason, to acknowledge Trek's TV history. The problem, as has been hashed out, is that the Pegasus episode handled the Riker dilemma with more decorum than TATV did because it could focus on Riker's relationship with Picard. Here, Riker apparently needs his hand held to be convinced to tell the truth. Again, it's another character inconsistency.

    As for ideas to make it better. SF Debris, in his review of this episode, made it very simple. ADMIRAL Riker is preparing a speech to induct the 200th member in to the Federation and is looking through historical records for inspiration. He doesn't participate, because his presence reminds us that this is on the holodeck. The episode plays out even as Riker observes and thinks, but he isn't the major mover here.

    I would build off of the idea of human racism, with the criminals being mercenaries hired by someone to try and destroy the conference. Enterprise, being in orbit for Archer's speech, try to stop them. Trip and T'Pol resolve their feelings with each other, and Archer works to save the coalition, even as he prepares his speech.

    Finally, if you kill Trip, or anyone, it really should count for something.

    Finally, and this is based on SF Debris idea, is to have the one instance that Riker has to interact with the crew, be a brief moment, where one of the ENT crew, probably Archer, get a one on one interaction, that give Riker his inspiration.

    And, you fade out from Archer's speech, not "Computer, end program."
     
  3. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Location:
    France
    I think it is somehow cribbing from the Voyager's living witness story. The idea is basically the same, enterprise/Voyager is long gone and other people reminisce about it.
     
  4. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Location:
    Republic of California
    I wonder what would have happened if there was a hint that the holographic record was somehow not entirely accurate. Like maybe Troi mentioning that she had a Charles Tucker as a patient recently. A guy with slightly pointed ears. Like say, Charles Tucker V.
     
  5. Pippin

    Pippin Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Location:
    Windsor, ON Canada
    I hate this episode with the heat of a thousand super-novas, and my reasons are many and varied.

    First and foremost, they killed Trip. In a sloppy and stupid and totally unnecessary manner. In the previous episode, we saw Trip MacGyver his way out of a dire situation with a $#@!! paper clip, and the stakes were much, much higher. Now all he can figure to do is blow himself up? Stupid, stupid, stupid. It smacks of laziness and bad writing. The character is twisted into a pretzel and all internal continuity ignored in order to get him to the point where he sacrifices himself unnecessarily.

    Braga says he wanted to kill Seven of Nine in a Voyager episode and wasn't allowed to, so because he was able to kill Trip, he did. Very mature reason. And he didn't even do it well. As viewers, there was no sense of sacrifice or sadness; just rage. And most people don't accept the episode as canon. (I've been told by those who know that CBS has quietly disavowed that episode as well; don't expect an official statement but that's the reality). That's the ultimate failure.

    Secondly, no one gives a damn. No one mourns him, there's no memorial; instead his friends spend their time squabbling about their seats and Archer worries about his speech and T'Pol worries about Archer's dress sense and Phlox can't stop smiling.

    Trip started out as a frat boy and grew into a loyal, competent member of the crew and proved himself to be a formidable captain in his own right. He deserved better than that sorry send-off.

    The writing in this episode is absolutely abysmal. Continuity is ignored; characterization is haphazard, to be kind. It was established that Chef was temperamental and nowhere were we shown or told he was a father confessor figure for the crew. Suddenly Riker is having heart-to-hearts with everyone. And the crew has been replaced by pod people. Hoshi telling him Trip didn't go to college -- that he learned about warp engines by working on boats in Florida. Yeah, right -- lots of Warp 5 engines on boats in the Florida Keys. Shran -- engaging in sleazy business? Shran, to whom honour and service were everything?

    Sloppy plot gaps -- as others noted, where the heck were the MACOs? Where was the intruders alert? Security? On holiday? Oh, right. If they were on the ball, then there would be no reason for Trip to die.

    These kind of errors would be unforgivable by a novice -- but by experienced writers like Bermaga? Totally unacceptable.

    I came away with the feeling (other than total disgust) that far from being a "valentine to the fans" that this episode was Bermaga's way of giving the finger to both the fans and the powers that be; an example of a temper tantrum transferred to celluloid. Nothing I've heard from the cast, crew or Bermaga themselves has made me change my mind.
     
  6. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    ^While I pretty much agree with what you said, there are a few 'misconceptions" here, if you don't mind me pointing them out.

    I don't quite buy this. CBS cares nothing about the episode or fans' feelings towards it. If they did, then they could have ordered the episode to be deleted from the DVDs and Blurays, but they didn't.

    Sorry, but that's not true at all. Both Berman and Braga have stated for the record that they truly thought they were making an episode that the fans would love, and that it would be a fitting sendoff for all of Trek. Yes, they both later admitted that the ep was a huge mistake, but at the time they thought they were catering to the fans. I know that the finished product makes that very hard to believe, but it's the truth.
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    We reach brother!
     
  8. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Location:
    France
    I don't know how that works. Is his blood one quarter copper based and three quarters iron based?
     
  9. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Location:
    Republic of California
    Well they had a crewman that was a quarter Romulan, so it does work.
     
  10. Last Redshirt

    Last Redshirt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Location:
    On the Starship Enterprise
    Spock was half human. Presumably if he produced a child with a human, the child would be 1/4 Vulcan.
     
  11. suarezguy

    suarezguy Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    As someone who liked Riker and Troi and didn't particularly like Trip (or ENT overall), I didn't like the episode but didn't think it was terrible. Archer and T'Pol had reasonable gravitas in response to Trip's death.
    I agree that not showing the speech felt dumb and particularly disrespectful to the series' fans, robbing the episode and series of the climax if not the point because Riker had had enough.

    I do have to defend against the complaint that there were no promotions in seven years, promotions actually seem pretty rare through Trek.
     
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Promotions that were made a big deal over were pretty rare but there were several promotions.

    Kirk to Admiral in TMP. Spock and Scotty to Captain in TWOK. Worf in Generations and DS9. Wesley in TNG (I can't remember the episode). Sisko to Captain.

    Sure, its all the main characters, but the idea of Rike at least being a higher rank shouldn't be that foreign.
     
  13. tomswift2002

    tomswift2002 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2011
    Chekov was also promoted fom Ensign to Lieutenant in TMP, and even way back in TOS, Spock was a Lieutenant-Commander in "Where No Man Has Gone Before", but by "The Menagerie" he is a full Commander.

    Plus we saw Riker and Troi discussing promotions of junior officers in "Lower Decks", and apparently some of the officers, like Sito were only out of the Academy for a short time (remember Sito showed up in "The First Duty" as part of Wesley's class).
     
  14. Vezner

    Vezner Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    I think that the episode by itself isn't actually that bad (minus Trip's pointless death) but it shouldn't have been the show's finale. As a standalone episode earlier on in the series, it would have been fine (again, minus Trip's death).
     
  15. allstar77

    allstar77 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Location:
    Big Blue Nation
    It was one of the few episodes I had seen and actually own. It was on one of the fan favorite DVD sets and I couldn't believe it. I remember watching the episode and thinking, wow, they kill off the only good character. I was shocked at the fan favorite title.

    Riker and Troi's appearance made me go back and watch the Pegasus episode and it didn't fit in. I finally decided it was a slap in the face to viewers and B&B's escape. "Didn't like Enterprise? Okay, it was just a holodeck program." At least I always wondered that: was it just that episode, or the entire series Riker was playing with.
     
  16. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Fan Favorite, must have been a bunch of folk who didn't bother watching ENT but voted for it because it had TNG characters.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2014
  17. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Location:
    Location? What is this?
    Or perhaps news about the poll for that DVD set made its way onto VoteForTheWorst. :devil:
     
  18. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I remember even before the series premiered, a poster on Trekweb half-jokingly predicted that the very last line of the last episode would be a TNG crew member saying "End program."
     
  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Indeed. You know, just in case it could all be forgotten as fan fiction ;)
     
  20. allstar77

    allstar77 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Location:
    Big Blue Nation
    Star Trek V before Enterprise.