Who was the more dangerous enemy, the Borg or the Dominion?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by The Overlord, Apr 11, 2012.

  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The Millenium trilogy was released in 1999. It was written by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens, who went on to write several episodes of Enterprise's fourth season.

    Where do you think JJ Abrams and friends got the idea?:p
     
  2. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

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    But Star Trek only makes sense when we assume one or two continuous timelines (e.g. normal Trek and mirror Trek). Otherwise there's no narrative.

    And in the timelines we're viewing, the Borg are strangely inept villains, who have time-travel technology but can't seem to figure out what we can: that the further back Borg go, the more defenceless and vulnerable Earth is.
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Yet Next Gen's "Parallels" explicitly describes an infinite multiverse, branching for every possible outcome of any event, anywhere, ever.

    Even Stargate, which treats time travel the same as Trek usually does, describes time travel creating alternate universes in "Before I Sleep"

    IMO, saying the drama of an episode or movie is ruined because "in another tineline it went the other way", is equivelent to saying that the drama's ruined because, if anything bad happens at all, why dont they use time travel to undo it later?

    The infinite other possibilities don't matter to the world the characters of our story are living in, therefore it might as well be one timeline. If that makes any sense.
    Ditto Terminator.
     
  4. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "Parallels" was basically a one-off in that sense.
    Time travel in Star Trek has mostly always based itself on a single timeline which can be changed and unchanged through time travel. Stop acting as if all of Trek is based off the reboot, its beyond grating.
     
  5. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, but in another universe "Parallels" described the opposite.

    Oh. Wait. No.

    Anyway, my point is not that there isn't a multi-verse in Star Trek (or, indeed, in reality).

    My point is that, when it comes to writing about the Borg in the few universes we follow, the authors often write implausible characters and plots.

    If we can't speak this way, then no writing is ever bad, because in another universe the characters and plots are more plausible.
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Key word: Mostly.

    I simply took some of the other ways Trek has used time travel (which, as I said, predate the reboot by a decade) and suggested it to reconcile the Borg having time travel technology with the Borg seemingly severely underusing their time travel technology.

    Get over me. And get over the fact that Trek offers more possibilities than just the ones in the episodes and movies YOU think should count.
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, as preposterous as it sounds (and I'll believe it when I meet my duplicate) the sci-fi style multiverse may be a real thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation

    And yes, the writing of Trek is frequently inconsistant and implausible. You'll get no argument there!
     
  8. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, that's what I was referring to.
     
  9. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm sure DAYoung was aware of the theory, you didn't need to link a wikipedia article :rolleyes:

    Frankly I think sci-fi works best when we don't subscribe to the notion (and that's all it really is) that there are infinite realities
     
  10. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I rather enjoy the Myriad Universe stories.
     
  11. Hound of UIster

    Hound of UIster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Dominion, the dark shadow of the Federation.
     
  12. EyalM

    EyalM Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    While you could make a temporary alliance with the Borg, there can never be long term coexistence with the collective. That makes them the more dangerous enemy.
     
  13. trekkiebaggio

    trekkiebaggio Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm, this is a tricky one. On the one hand The Borg are relentless, have no leaders (the Queen is replaceable) and no morale to erode. If they want you assimilated chances are you will be, however, they don't seem to focus on one goal at a time. The collective is spread out so you may be able to withstand an attack of a single cube at a time. Having said that, the more technology you invent the more powerful The Borg will be when the assimilate it.

    The Dominion are much more single-minded and are motivated by fear and hate. The Founders can slip into any government and destabilise it, they have the ability to negotiate alliances with other races and engineer soldiers to exploit specific weaknesses. But the soldiers are dependent on ketracel white, if you manage to deprive them of that or if you kill The Founders the Dominion could fall into disarray.

    Long term I think the Borg are more dangerous, they will come for you eventually. But in a sustained conflict the Dominion are ruthless, and I don't know the exact figures but I imagine they've caused more Federation casualties than the Borg.
     
  14. Xerxes1979

    Xerxes1979 Captain Captain

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    Borg by a mile. Dominion tech is barely equal to the Alpha quadrant after 10,000 years.

    If the Borg ever don't go 100% on conquest I believe it is because they often harvest instead of completely assimilate out of need for new drones. We saw one borg baby and that is it, the collective is apparently mostly enslaved spieces.

    The collective if you believe Voyager is 900 years old. Plenty of time to traverse the galaxy at standard warp speed. What would explain the galaxy not being overrun yet?
     
  15. Search4

    Search4 Captain Captain

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    IMHO the Borg.

    When you fight the Dominion, they expend energy-ships-manpower. Attrition against them works as seen in DS9, especially when the supply line wormhole was cut.

    When you fight the Borg... if they pick their targets well... they get stronger. More drones. More industrial capacity. More capability. If they wanted to overrun the galaxy they could, one world at a time.

    I think Voyager made it pretty clear that the Borg didn't sweep the Delta quadrant not because they could not, but because there was little they didn't already have. The Federation, 200 years before our heroes debut, would be the same. What possible use is 2012 earth to a galaxy spanning group like the Borg?

    So down to the one cube question. I would argue the first "one cube" visit is a direct result of the Q Who encounter, where the Enterprise suddenly vanishes while under attack. The Borg would think that's really cool technology to have and that same cube could be tasked to check on that. In that context, its no accident they're near Picard and particuarly treat him specially. Unlike billions others.

    The First Contact "one cube" argument is harder and there's no good reason if you believe they were there to conquer the Federation. Of course, you'd go back 100 years first... or at least go back 100 years in a way that the enemy's warship could not follow you!

    So my personal belief: the Borg are employing strategy, not war. They want something from the Federation for the price of the "one cube" which is not that high given what we know. They might want the Federation's R&D capability...proven very strong... or my view, they might want to toughen up the Federation for a threat that the Borg know of that is coming. Why not position the Federation to put up a tough fight against an entity that the Borg are concerned with? Species 8472 is an example, but i'd lean to something on the far side of Fed Space (relative to where the Borg are based in the Delta quadrant) that the Borg are concerned about.

    Strategy, not a bad attempt at conquest. Shame we killed them off in the books.
     
  16. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Interesting insight, I hadn't looked at in that way.

    yea, suppose, due to their Time travel ability, they knew about the Dominion War coming in DS9, so they presented themselves as a threat, to push the Federation forward Technologically (The Babylon 5 Strategy of the Shadows to strengthen Races through conflict), so they could swoop in and assimilate The Federation after they grew Technologically from that war and were possibly still weakened and licking their wounds (Or as you say, perhaps a race we don't even know yet from the other side of the Beta Quadrant, that make the Borg nervous)

    Very interesting indeed, thanks for sharing :bolian: