Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Spock/Uhura Fan, Sep 7, 2012.
You could build a hut out of all the straw men in here.
One tiny romance and suddenly it's "pandering".
Now if you want to pander, get Kirk and Spock to almost kiss. That would be some glorious pander.
I really like the relationship. I think it adds complexity to both characters, and it sets a ground work for future character development.
Most people have to find balance in their lives. They have to find a way to work efficiently with people they don't necessarily like, they have friendships, they have romantic relationships. They also have to find a way to make all of these things work together.
I agree with this:
So I fail to see how two people trying to find their way towards a mature work/relationship balance is "pandering" to anyone when the majority of people do this every day.
I also so enjoyed how the lift scene was a shock but then you realized it was all there in what went before. Made the rewatch so enjoyable. Very well done.
Okay, so what makes Spock/Uhura "pandering" as opposed to the romantic subplots in umpteen other Trek movies and episodes?
Was all the romantic angst between Decker and Ilia pandering? What about Kirk flirting with Gillian Armstrong?
Is it just that involves Spock and Uhura this time around?
I didn't say anything about those other movies. I don't understand the logic that if I say something's bad about this movie, now it's my responsibility to defend all the other movies.
It's my opinion that it was only there to get teenage girls interested. Taking two hugely popular characters and shoe-horning in an unprofessional and unethical (teacher student) relationship complete with hot wet kisses in the middle of an important mission. It was eye-rollingly dumb and corny in my opinion. I don't feel like getting into an argument with you over it.
I thought the kisses were rather chaste myself.
Yeah well it was pretty hot and wet by vulcan standards.
And then, of course, there's the whole question of what's wrong with trying to attract teenage girls? Isn't that what Chekov was for? And wasn't Spock's sex appeal responsible for bringing a huge influx of female viewers into fandom in the first place? Just like all those curvy guest-stars in the William Theiss costumes were intended to attract teenage boys and their fathers?
I'm not sure when we decided that Trek was supposed to be above that sort of thing. Lord knows Roddenberry wasn't!
It's funny. Just this week I got a piece of fan mail that (politely) objected to the fact that Kirk was fooling around with a sexy female stowaway in one of my books. The reader conceded that this sort of thing went on in the original show, but thought that it didn't belong in a modern-day STAR TREK book. And I've occasionally run into other fans who maintained that sex and romance had no place in Trek. I admit this baffles me.
People don't have hormones in the 23rd century?
NUhura should been wearing a Brass-bra!
I mean, real cotton? NOT CANON1!
Did it work? When I was a teenager I only had eyes for Kirk.
I enjoyed the relationship but that was mainly because I enjoyed the new Spock character.
You know that was it for me too.. Uhura is nice and all but I'm not invested in the character. NuSpock blew me away. He was immediately in my top five ever characters.
This reminds me of a rather passionate and possibly offensive parody/rant I once read in a magazine by a VERY disgruntled fan upon seeing The Next Generation for the first time in '87. He postulated that the crew must recieve doses of a new drug, "anabolic estrogen" which builds muscle mass but unlike anabolic steroids, arrests any hostility and anger. The crew are left unable to engage in anything more than platonic relationships, which has led to such a population decline in the Federation that Starfleet Academy now accepts a single applicant per year (no doubt in reference to "Coming of Age")
Sorry to hear about the loss of your pets, I know that can be very hard. It's nice that you still have their pictures up. And I wouldn't take down that photo of Lyla either. It's beautiful. I look forward to your updates. Do you have any short stories, or something like that? I like to take baby-steps in getting used to an author.
Hey, you sure that wouldn't be hot?
Well, I recall being told that I wasn't a "TRUE FAN™" on another site because I like S/U. I was told in so many words that I needed to watch all seasons of TOS before I could have an opinion about the movie I did watch that is in a separate timeline. And even then, if I still liked S/U, my opinion would be WRONG. Pretty amazing.
I'm a fan of what I like, but apparently there is a set of qualifications involved if one is to be considered a TRUE FAN™, of what kind, I'm not sure. I guess they were talking about Star Trek in general.
"Lame pandering" almost seems kind in comparison. I am very happy that this thread has been so nice so far.
That is INCREDIBLE. It's just.. wow. Does he have his hand on her back?
(is there a K/S version? J/K, J/K!!)
Oh and as to you getting mocked for liking S/U, that's what's called shipper wars and you got caught in the crossfire. I think most people in the more fannish threads on this forum just plain enjoy the characters and enjoy everyone's different preferences.
Me too. He is kind of yummy.
I have to mostly agree. I say mostly because I am invested in the new Uhura character, but I don't like her as much as I liked the old one. I think it's the actresses. I just think Nichelle was better than Zoe, but Zoe's nice.
Here are some pretty pics of them both:
I completely agree about the new Spock, though.
Yeah, I just came across it and I thought it was very pretty. I never thought of them as vampires before, but this drawing seemed to work. And yes, I do think he has his hand on her back.
I don't know about any K/S versions, even though you're kidding, but you never know what's out there.
You know what's funny, though? I don't know if it was a shipper war or not. The people that claimed that Spock couldn't, just couldn't, be with Uhura were very hard about it absolutely just having to be Kirk/Spock/McCoy as a friendship pairing that was dubbed "The Triumvirate." They went into all kinds of stuff about id, ego, and super-ego and how they needed each other and had to be together and never have any women in their lives or a family.
Kirk is supposed to be married to the ship, and Spock is supposed to be dedicated to him, and Bones is supposed to be the heart and the passion... I asked point-blank if it was sexual because they seemed to think Uhura was stealing Spock away from the other 2, and I couldn't understand the intensity of the hate. I got no response. You could hear crickets chirping, so I'm not sure what that means. I just think that it's possible to have friends and a girlfriend/fiancee. According to them, I was wrong. Maybe it was a shipper war... I don't know.
Wow. That sounds pretty weird. I mean sure Kirk, Spock, McCoy is a friendship of the ages but what does that have to do with people's need for romantic and sexual relationships? Now you can ship them that way with each other or give them women.. but either way these men will have needs that straight friendship cannot fulfill. It sounds like some people are elevating friendship to the level of the Victorian "romantic friendships" which seem a little odd to us today. All those intense feelings, and yet chaste.
Also.. fandom is supposed to be fun!
I like TOS Uhura better as well, probably because she is older. But I have high hopes for Zoe in the next movie TOS Uhura is sassy at times and you can see Zoe has that too.
Thanks. For an update, Lyla is six years old now and a bit jowlier. We just got back from our morning walk and I'm now playing fetch with Sophie while gearing up to get some serious writing done.
[This concludes the OT Pet report.]
Regarding short stories, I've had stories published in a number of Trek anthologies, including Seven Deadly Sins, The Sky's The Limit, Enterprise Logs, Mirror Universe: Glass Empire, and Star Trek: The Amazing Stories. Thanks for asking and feel free to check them out!
Meanwhile, I have a very Uhura-centric novel, The Weight of Worlds, coming out from Pocket Books next year . . . .
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