Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Spock/Uhura Fan, Sep 7, 2012.
He'll follow his father's example and get a younger woman by then.
Zach had some of the sexiest scenes on heroes and yes... they were with woman
Zoe and the rest of the cast already knew Zach was gay b4 he came out and Zach is a good actor who can play gay and straight roles equally well. I guess people like you are the type of people that Zack was scared off. As you seem to judge him only on his sexuality
However am not going to lie, I wish Zack wasn’t gay...I myself am not homophobic but the gay life style is something I don’t encourage. Sometimes it just best when we see a man and a woman get it on...it is not hate to say that that is the most natural way.
I still eternally love Mr Quinto and I think him and Zoe are perfect together on screen.
That didn't seem to bother Sarek and Amanda . . . .
^ I agree. It's happily for as long as they have each other, and even after she dies, like his father, he'll still love her.
Oh, it's probably worth remembering that the movie isn't literally a prequel to the three seasons of TOS. As Spock states explicitly, whatever their futures used to be is no longer set in stone. We're looking at a brand-new timeline--and a brand-new version of the famous five-year-mission, which is bound to play out very differently than the version weve been watching for the last forty years.
For example: the fact that Vulcan is space-dust and Amanda is dead means that "Amok Time" and "Journey to Babel" can no longer fit into any future timeline. And you can forget about Amanda's cameo in "The Voyage Home," too.
The new future is a blank slate at this point. What happened last time around is irrelevant.
So's sepsis but damn I wash out my wounds.
Don't be silly. Next you're going to be saying that warp drives and transporter beams don't occur in nature . . . .
And nature clearly designed us to communicate by transmitting electrons across vast distances and posting on computer message boards!
I am trying to stop myself from posting a youtube of Closer.
My points are
1.Take the movie in isolation, and the relationship works and provides interest.
2.The movie is a reboot and prequel, same characters "starting off". The reasons include .Catching in fans of TOS,reintroducing fans of TNG to the original cast ,Getting the next generation who might not have even seen the next genera...wait Im getting into a paradox here
Most of what is in the movie is ..yes Im gonna say it "logical" in the sense that TOS could have progressed from this movie stXI or however you wish to describe it.
The Spock/Uhura relationship in its present form couldnt have.
If TOS had come first in the fictional timeline np.
Pull away the dodgy sets the shakin camers and the crew throwing themselves around to simulate attacks n so on and TOS and XI come down to the "ongoing mission" of the interplay between the main characters.
You dont really see that much of/care about the other 300 crew members aka "ensign fodders".
STXI does a fair "how it it started job on all the main chars.Scott.. meh but wth.The Uhura/Spock thing isticks out as an anomaly imho.
Whatever way you dress it up the Spock/Uhura relationship is different to TOS.
Face it there is no romantic relationship between the 2 in TOS that could have continued on from the point they reached in stXI.
Whats gonna happen now..?
Progression.. and a "Vulcan mindblank" at some future date ?
"Lets keep our love secret" cos were at work and the odd" stop the elevator for a quickie" .. erm maybe.
I mean in the sense of STII. "whose been holding up the godamn elevator" and a scene likethe pair emerge with "secret smiles" and uniform adjustments.
A further oncreen elevation would jar badly with me.. a "paying audience " type cos of the history/lack of, and other reasons mentioned previously.
nb I didnt vote on the poll cos the options dont cover it.
I mean for example ,I didnt hate them together and if I had never seen stI-VI or TOS I might have voted, Loved them together, after first viewing STXI.
Will Spock boldly go where no Vulcan/half Vulcan has gone before? I hope not at least not on screen anyway
It's called acting. Separate the actor from the character, because they're not the same. Hence the title of Leonard Nimoy's book, I Am Not Spock.
it's alternative reality. The only thing that can be considered "prequel" here is the fact that you see the characters when they were young (something you didn't see in TOS) but for all that matter it's a prequel of this alternative reality not TOS one.
They didn't have a relationship in TOS and I think that no one is saying the contrary.
This is another mistake I often read people making about this movie, the assumption that just because Nu!Spock and Uhura do have a relationship it automatically means that Tos Spock and Uhura had one too. As far as canon is concerned (if we go by suppositions and subtext one could believe they were a couple stretching things out a bit ) they weren't romantically involved with each other.
The only reason some people and the writers bring their TOS scenes in the topic is because while their relationship is canon only in this reality, unlike what some fans say, it isn't completely baseless for the TOS canon and it's believable that the writers took inspiration from their scenes from TOS.
Under different circumstances they could have been together and that's what the reboot writers explored (by making them meet each other earlier etc)
what's more logic for Spock? Alternative realities being different or concepts like "destiny"? because if you think that each reality is the same then it's destiny we're talking about here, the idea that no matter what you do you will always end up with the same identical result (already contradicted by the existence of a mirror universe where the characters were already different)
That is more or less like expecting him to believe in God.
I think that Spock won't even pay attention to whatever the other Spock had a relationship with Uhura (or other people) or not. It must be not so hard for him to figure out that the two realities are different and in fact he's the first one in the movie that realized that and acknowledged that his life won't be like Spock's prime one. In the scene that I posted previously he actually sounds like he's chastising Spock Prime for his flawed logic and really when you think about it Spock prime was more out of character in that movie than Quinto Spock. Doesn't mean that I don't like him or I can't justify him if I want but still he wasn't totally like TOS Spock either.
Of course he still took his advice, but I think that he did it because it was logical for him to do so after Spock prime essentially freed him from his duty toward his people (by volunteering as the one who would help them "you can stay in two places in the same moment").
they didn't. But it doesn't need a very active imagination to believe they could be attracted to each other
This comment from Peterdavid.net in particular has made some interesting points about TOS S/U:
It goes well with what Nichelle Nichols also stated and the fact that Roddenberry had wanted to explore a S/U relationship but he never could.
In that, JJ is doing what the original writers weren't allowed to do at the time.
he's bound to tragedy, he will always outlive the ones that he loves (unless he dies in a mission) look at Spock Prime. One more reason to live the moment... carpe diem
It could be interesting (if the writers really do want to play with the differences between realities) if S/U will have a son who in the future will be in starfleet too.
(Spock Prime had a son in one of the novels but they aren't canon)
(though some people can bet that Spock and Uhura's son is Tuvok )
Thanks for your response Spock/Uhura Fan. I appreciate why you think I don’t get that change is inevitable, but I feel its just a matter of how much change is believable and there is of course my "bias" as to whether a relationship between Spock and Uhura will undermine what I value about the Spock character. I have nothing against Uhura in either universe with respect to who she should go out with, apart from those two considerations.
No. It’s more that there are a few undervalued things in Star Trek that I would prefer weren’t on the endangered list. Too late now I suppose.
I consider some changes to be more likely than others. For example, Spock’s Vulcan indoctrination is going to be pretty similar in each universe, as is his mother’s influence if significant. I can’t see that varying much and neither, from what we see in the film, do the writers. "Everything" we know about him seems to develop "normally", such as his being bullied in childhood and his deciding to joint Starfleet. It’s a bit like a fish being able to swim left or right but not being able to walk down Main Street, even in a new universe (most likely). Yes, there are stories about what Roddenberry may have planned for his future or said about his past but that doesn’t fit with TOS very well as it stands and can’t be considered anyway.
Now the destruction of Vulcan might be a sufficiently big factor to, over time, change Spock’s "programming" but they may have been better to wait until this next movie in that case. Of course I still wouldn’t like it, But it might be more believable.
Not to my knowledge, which also isn’t as good as others here. I only recall that business about feeling the deaths of 400 Vulcans on another star ship.
True, but that all happened in TOS or we have no reason to think it didn't. Certainly what we do see agrees largely with what we know. But if Vulcan emotional control is to work, it has to be second nature. Not something you turn on and off. So how and why did he go from Vulcan to non-Vulcan and later (in the prime universe anyway) back again? I can understand him taking decades to loosen up but all this switching around like putting on different pairs of pants doesn’t work for me.
OK, let me rephrase that: I don’t agree that it was a good idea to do that on this occasion.
Except that my view has a great deal more evidence in its favour and even the "no moon" scene for example, makes it clear Spock has little concept of human love and romance. I haven’t "examined" them but its seems like the rest are not exactly conclusive. As I said, we are working on probabilities here.
Can you give me an example when he wasn't under some external influence (something you have a problem with when it comes to Scotty and Uhura so I'm sure you want to include such here).
I agree, but this new reality isn't one selected at random and as mentioned there are indications nuSpock's upbringing is very similar. The over riding factor being his Vulcan conditioning in both in my view.
Mere existence is not enough to ensure that what exists makes sense. Which is what we are talking about here.
But it is a concern? I was wondering if I had misjudged you on this point and perhaps should apologise but you are not making it easy to decide. Of course we are all probably a bit ageists at times.
No, you make a lot of accusations about people who have the gall to suggest the your hints are less impressive evidence than you believe they are, but I don't recall you demonstrating why that is a double standard (or how it could be). Seems like the sort of thing anyone trying to support their case would do.
A contradiction is not a double standard either. Its probably a misunderstanding or a mistake, as in this case, where I should have made it clear that the "past history" I was referring to only included the sort of hints you are relying on. My bad.
This definition may help: A double standard is the unjust application of different sets of principles for similar situations
Already we can see why I don't agree with your assertion. I believe that the situations aren’t similar. Now I am not guilty of a double standard if my argument is based on that difference, even if you disagree that there is a difference.
No, these things aren't absolute but I have TOS and the reasoning I have put forward above and in other posts to put against Spock/Uhura. You're main objection to Scotty/Uhura seems to be that someone should have told you about it ahead of time! Well, you also say you reject it because its too late and in bad taste. But "in universe" people's situations can change (a point you are happy to accept about the Alt reality) so there no reason to expect previous indications of it.
Not a marketing trap. That might get people to watch it but doesn’t explain why they actually like it. I don’t think it is unreasonable to suggest that if we like something, we will be less willing to object to issues we might have otherwise had a problem with. Just human nature really.
I’m allowed to disagree with Mr JJ or anyone else come to that. It is not "that Spock and Uhura fall under a different standard and different set of rules", it’s that I believe the situation is different and therefore the standards don’t apply. And once again that is not invalidated just because others disagree. Let me know if you have difficulty seeing that point.
NuSpock isn’t real and the writers might be wrong.
That’s a strange thing to say. Of course I am. Or more correctly I am saying I think they got it wrong. There is no secret about that. We wouldn’t be discussing this if I agreed with what we saw on screen. However this is no different to my disagreement about other parts of the movie such as the likelihood of nuKirk finding Prime Spock in cave etc. Are you seriously suggesting no one is allowed to object to anything they see in any movie because, if it is in the script and on screen, it automatically makes sense!?
Some of the comments here remind me of a letter sent to DC Comics back in the eighties about Scott and Uhura from The Final Frontier.
in all honesty I believe that this is one of the misconception that many gays have but the truth is that you cant compare been gay to been black or yellow or white.
When I said the most natural way what I meant is that you need a man and a woman to make babies and more importantly males and female are not the same. They are 2 half of 1 being. Colour is not subject to this but gender is.
You can't change race. You can't change sexuality, either.
Not gay. Been married for nineteen years and been with the same gal for a little over twenty and we have three kids.
Homosexual activity is not a social construct created by man, so I'm not sure what you mean by natural? And do you mean it would be easier to accept gay people if they had an easily identifiable outward appearance? Sounds like someone is afraid of accidentally associating with gay folks...
An actors activities off the screen doesn't affect my enjoyment of their on the screen performances. Shatner's a dick and Quinto's gay, who cares as long as they can act?
I am not scared of associating with anyone all I said is that the most natural way to make babies is a man sleeping with a woman. We have male and female toilets in public places and we we have boys and girls scout we don’t have gays and straight scouts. men are women are physically, socially, psychologically and emotionally different.
Take Spock and Uhura for example no wait this thread is even about them.Spock will never physically hurt uhura if they get into an argument but he can physically hurt kirk. do you want to know why? Uhura is a woman and Kirk is a man.
Spock strangling uhura will be domestic violence but Spock strangling Kirk will be just one of those guy things where they throw out punches.
You're simply trying to hide your dislike of gay people. If you weren't then Quinto being gay would have absolutely no bearing on your feelings about the on screen relationship. I don't think it worked but that has more to do with the way that its written and nothing to do with the sexuality of the people portraying the characters.
In This Side of Paradise, Spock brings up that assaulting a fellow officer is a court martial offense. Kirk then points out that if they're both in the brig no one could build the transmitter. So normally, Kirk and Spock would've both been facing charges but neither pursued them because it would interfere with their ability to solve the crisis.
You know, I believe that Shatner was married when he filmed "City on the Edge of Forever." Doesn't mean he couldn't pretend to be in love with Joan Collins on-screen.
So why can't Quinto pretend to be in love with Saldana?
I mean, it's not like James Doohan was really Scottish. Or that Walter Koenig was actually from Leningrad.
It's all make-believe, actors playing roles.
What's the argument underneath all this stringing-together of factoids?
Separate names with a comma.