Who agrees? Kirk's a womanizer!

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Panda<3, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    It was your characterization of a slave with no control over her own life as somehow wanting to have sex with a stranger to comfort him that I find so laughable. It's a boy's fantasy, totally disconnected from the reality of slavery. Now if you want to view this as a fantasy space opera, fine, that kind of character fits right in. But people try and make Star Trek be about something, ideals and values, and if you view it through that lens it's quite a different story.

    Just to be clear I don't fault Kirk at all, but any nobility on his part was about trying to escape and save his ship, not about "love" for this woman.
     
  2. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    Women were often raped. Their genitalia mutilated, their babies stabbed and thrown in the compost heap to die, if the women bred too quickly. They were whipped, beaten, treated like blighted cattle.

    House slaves were threatened with severe punishments. They were to be seen, not heard. If the food or service was not to the master's liking, the slave was beaten, whipped, their hair was pulled out forcefully, leaving clots of blood to scab over, and sometimes, they were killed if the "offense" was egregious enough.

    I'm aware of the realities of slavery.

    I view it as Gunsmoke in space.

    I didn't say he loved Drusilla. I said he may have been about to die, and this woman offered him comfort and solace, along with other, more physical pleasures. He was likely formulating a plan to get back to the ship, but he was, if nothing else, a realist.
     
  3. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne, AUS
    I'm not suggesting that ladies' men aren't part of harmful relationships. I agree: they often are. My point is that there is an important moral difference between those who set out to use someone and those who do not. And, to me, these two labels recognise this moral difference.

    By the way, by noting this moral difference, I'm not absolving the ladies man of responsibility, e.g. for not recognising a lover's expectations (love) don't fit with his expectations (sex). I'm simply noting that there's a difference of intention, and that this is morally significant.

    (It's also worth noting that both parties can sometimes be equally deluded: he in his no-strings fantasy, she in her romance fantasy. It can be she & she and he & he, of course.)
     
  4. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    ^ Your explanation is better, where I refer to her seeing him as noble. I believe in that scene they're both letting a little fantasy take hold of them.
     
  5. UFO

    UFO Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    So you are suggesting Kirk finally came to the realisation that he needed to have sex with her to prevent her master believing she had failed in her "mission"? I guess we're back to Kirk being "noble" again. ;)
     
  6. Sadara

    Sadara Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Here ya go!

    http://www.thecaptainkirkpage.com/kirksex.html

    This page has a look at each and every episode of the original series and counts up Kirk's little conquests, etc. It's actually a much shorter list than most people think. Context is also considered. Enjoy!

    And personally, I don't think Kirk is a womanizer, especially after seeing pages like the above link.
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    That website is wrong in a few places.

    In The Menagerie, Kirk's reaction to the mention of Lieutenant Helen Johansson's name implies at least a sexual hook-up, and not simply coffee.

    In By Any Other Name, no we don't actually see it, but the impression I received is that Kirk was screwing Kelinda. Yes we only saw kissing.

    In Elaan of Troyius, Kirk and Elaan were (in one scene) rolling around on her bed, that they're lovers is (again) implied.

    Elaan: "Captain, that ancient Earth custom called spanking, what is it?"

    :)
     
  8. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    As far as Kelinda goes. If I was Kirk; I wouldn't go sticking things into what appears to be a lucious human female on the outside. That you know is a strange alien creature from another galaxy on the inside. You never know where they might have extra teeth.
     
  9. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    I don't know, I'd probably risk it. Though I would be cautious.
     
  10. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne, AUS
    I don't want your pity, BBS folks, but I've never seen 'Mirror, Mirror'.
     
  11. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    It's a decent episode. There are some fun moments, but it's nowhere near my favorite. Still, if you get a chance to check it out, do so.
     
  12. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne, AUS
    I'd like to. Season 2 looks like it has some excellent episodes.

    But iTunes is poor on Trek, and we don't have Netflix in Australia.

    (We don't have a DVD/Blu-Ray player.)
     
  13. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    Ouch.
     
  14. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne, AUS
    I'll be OK.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    :lol:

    I've been wreaking my brain for the past half hour or so thinking of some (legal) way for you to watch that episode, and I can't think of one short of you having to buy a DVD player. Australia seems a bit limited on their media availability! Not to rub it in (I swear), but here in the U.S., I have a dozen ways to see the show anytime I want. It's a shame you can't do that.
     
  16. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne, AUS
    As far as I can tell, the infrastructure's there (e.g. cable internet, HD screens). But copyright negotiations probably make the difference. It's why folks outside Australia can't buy the ebook edition of my first book (yet). It's available, but y'all can't have it. (Unless someone tells me otherwise.)

    Meanwhile, I can convert a DVD file to MP4 on my laptop, then import into iTunes. Then I can play it on a bigger screen.

    But downloading it (legally) would be preferred.
     
  17. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    If you're talking about Distraction, it's available in the U.S. on Kindle, as is Martial Arts and Philosophy.

    As for the movies, I can't stand the way the distribution system works. I think releases should be available worldwide. It's not like we can't do it. I guess the big guys think there's just more money in their method.
     
  18. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Location:
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    I do believe it would cut down on piracy.
     
  19. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2002
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    That would make sense, and we don't want that.
     
  20. DAYoung

    DAYoung Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Location:
    Melbourne, AUS
    Yes, I was talking about Distraction. But that's actually the Australian edition. This is the US edition.

    I've been told you (in the US/Canada) can't buy the Australian edition, but this might not be correct.

    Better still, Apple charges Australians up to 69% more for the same films (even when our dollar was worth more).