Which Star Trek movie has got the most plot holes? And the least?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Tracy Trek

    Tracy Trek Commander Red Shirt

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    Was the nebula near the planetoid Regula? I always thought perhaps the Genesis effect created the star out the nebula and then the wave hit the planetoid and created a full size planet out of it and the remaining nebula matter. At the very least I believe the Genesis wave created the star, it wasn't already there.
     
  2. Coco Pops 1967

    Coco Pops 1967 Hey there. How you doing? Premium Member

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    My version of the conversation between the whales and the whale probe from ST 4

    George sings his whale song up to the Probe. The probe hovers there listening intently

    PROBE ALIEN 1: "What the heck is that? It's nonsense."
    PROBE ALIEN 2: "Ask it to resend its message. It's annoying me."

    The Probe responds and George again sings.

    PROBE ALIEN 1: "It's still gibberish. Rotate 90 degrees for better reception."

    The Probe rotates 90 degrees.

    PROBE ALIEN 2: "These stupid things haven't evolved at all in 10 million years."
    PROBE ALIEN 1: "Retract the antennae and then blow the planet up. Bunch of wasted space."
     
  3. Vger23

    Vger23 Commander Red Shirt

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    Grimy name plates aside, TMP is probably the least-flawed story in the movie franchise.
     
  4. Coco Pops 1967

    Coco Pops 1967 Hey there. How you doing? Premium Member

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    Don't you mean ST VI :)

    And yeah can't trust the Klingons but we will conspire with them to kill the chancellor
     
  5. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I never took that as a plot hole. It's an intentional irony, IMO.
     
  6. Coco Pops 1967

    Coco Pops 1967 Hey there. How you doing? Premium Member

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    I guess so. But boy did it stand out.
     
  7. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    That's not a plot hole. There was no necessity in removing that from a nameplate. V'Ger was a living machine, not a curator at the Smithsonian.

    You really missed the obvious meaning. Being a self-professed "genius" does not mean one is able to understand the abstract, such as experienced-based, creative thinking, which allowed Kirk to use, then move past conventional Starfleet tactics Khan could not understand. Moreover, his "genius" arrogance robbed him of even considering that his lab-created intellect could be out manuvered by a "plain" human.


    Khan is an emotional human. As he pointedly observed, he hurt Kirk at that point (killing Regula staff, stealing Genesis & and inadvertently causing Terrell's suicide), and would go on hurting him by leaving him "in the center of a dead world." That was his point. However, he was sensible enough to see if the resourceful Kirk would escape, and if so, be prepared to destroy him with Reliant.

    Regarding your "magical" comment, Star Trek is not NOVA, or an issue of Popular Science. It is set in the late 23rd century, and most of what had been created up to that point deals with projections based on real world theories, mixed with fantastic ideas of what could be--or what will never be. That is the history of most filmed science fiction.

    If you really have a problem with a so-called "magical" element in ST, then you should have walked out of the horrid NuTrek movies, as they are no more scientifically accurate than the TOS movies.


    The extremes of some ST fans' atheism aside, Star Trek--to make this point again--deals with concepts that are more than the one-sided desire for alleged "hard science." If it tried, then many things created and maintained from TOS and through the rest of the proper franchise would not exist, such as the mind meld, Q's species, the character in my avatar, and dozens of other powers, traits or events that are not understood or generated by a scientific explanation.



    You probably buy the never-going-to-happen transporter technology, or convenient time travel, or the entire concept behind the Borg. If so, then you are accepting things that have as much chance of happening--based on current physics--as a gamma radiation overdose transforming a person into a giant, pea-colored superhuman who can hurl tanks across the state, or take mile-long jumps.

    Abrams did not invent plot holes, but many see him as the 'roided up practitioner of it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2015
  8. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

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  9. Hela

    Hela Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Khans gaff is unbelievable because he supposably was a leader in what amounted to a world war, where there would have been conflicts that involved 3-dimensional thinking. Humans have been taking part in such battles for approaching a century now.

    Sure, he wouldn't be as proficient in it as Kirk (unless he had some experience with the airforce or the navy). But the very concept of battle on more than two plains should not have been 'abstract' for him...especially when he was introduced being rescued from his space ship.

    And uh, pointing out plot holes on a thread about plot holes does not mean a poster 'can't get past' them to the extent they ruin a movie.
     
  10. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    His tactics had limits since he was apparently defeated, leading him to flee earth.

    The Botany Bay was not his space ship--it was likely stolen, and since it was an advanced ship of the period (according to Spock), and if so, that kind of technology was not as available to al like a car on a lot. I believe he was already in suspended animation when the ship left earth, its operation was the responsibility of others.

    Even if--for argument's sake--Khan had a basic knowledge of the Botany Bay's functions, that is not applicable to being an experienced starship captain who has spent years in innumerable combat situations against foes Khan never encountered, thus that's a wealth of advantages--even over one who claims regular humans are "quite honestly inferior. Mentally, physically."

    Its about saying things are "plot holes" that do not meet the criteria of a "plot hole." Come on--the V'Ger nameplate thing or Vulcan spiritualism is no plot hole.
     
  11. Hela

    Hela Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, most people don't really use 'plot hole' correctly. I think it's reached a point where it has an unofficial meaning.

    The eel randomly deciding to leave Chekovs ear is a little bit of one. It needs to happen for plot reasons, because Chekov needs to stop trying to kill Kirk in that scene, his function as Khan's mole had been completed, they'd set up a situation where it couldn't be removed medically, and convention demands he can't be killed by it. But it really didn't make sense with how the little buggers hsd been established as working.

    I mean, claiming Chekov's heroic willpower 'forces' it out doesn't quiet cut it - presumably Terrell, McGivers and Khan's people really, really didn't want it squashing their brains either. And it's not like the slug bailed because it was afraid of Chekov topping himself, when a) Khan does establish their modus operandi is to latch on until their host dies, and b) the one in Terrell didn't seem that worried.

    But yeah, it's a minor one. Not worth bringing up outside of threads devoted to plot holes, and no doubt TrekLit found a way to plug it.
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    All those feelings of loyalty to Kirk scared the eel out of Chekov. See, none of the others who'd been eeled so far had served with Kirk. In "This Side of Paradise," Kirk beat the space spores with his feelings of love for the Enterprise. Enough of that whatever had rubbed off on Chekov to save him from the Ceti eel. Khan's men hated Kirk; that probably sped them to their doom!

    ;) :shifty:
     
  13. Hela

    Hela Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    By that point both Marla and Terrell had proven their loyalty by waltzing into mortal danger to save Kirk. Chekov? He once backed up Scotty in a barfight.

    The Kirk's favor is a fickle thing, apparently bestowed only upon those who outright worship him as a god amongst men.:)
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2015
  14. RogueVasad

    RogueVasad Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Nemesis.

    Pretty much everything Shinzon does in the movie is a series of plotholes
     
  15. drt

    drt Captain Captain

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    I thought the accepted reasoning for the eel leaving Chekov's head was it was starving.
     
  16. Coco Pops 1967

    Coco Pops 1967 Hey there. How you doing? Premium Member

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    Eeek!! He had no brain
     
  17. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    The plot hole in TMP is: why didn't V'Ger just digitize Kirk once he claimed to know how to contact the creator?
     
  18. Tallguy

    Tallguy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Has it been mentioned that in TWOK: The Enterprise is twelve hours from Regula at warp speed. Kirk, Spock, and McCoy watch and argue about the Genesis demo. Minutes later the Enterprise and Reliant take out each other's warp capabilities. Then the Enterprise continues to Regula I in less time than it takes for Khan's victims on the station (murdered before Khan encountered the Enterprise) to develop rigor mortis.

    Hmmmmm.
     
  19. Coco Pops 1967

    Coco Pops 1967 Hey there. How you doing? Premium Member

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    A wizard did it.
     
  20. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The script calls for McCoy to stab Chekov with a hypo when he collapses and it's THAT which causes the eel to skeedaddle. Either they chose not to film it or it ended up on the cutting room floor.
     

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