Where was Earth's Leader?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Bry_Sinclair, Dec 24, 2012.

  1. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In Paradise Lost/Homefront, with the threat of Dominion invasion of Earth, where was the planet's leader? It was the Federation President that took point on the matter, which is understandable in many ways seeing as how the UFP is based from Earth, it would be heavily involved in defending the planet, but surely Earth's leader would be the one calling the shots?

    The Federation and Earth are two separate things, the leader of the former isn't the defacto leader of the latter.
     
  2. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The President of Earth, is automatically the president of the federation council. And the rest of the federation membership can just suck on that.

    Earth Rules !!!!!

    *****

    Seriously, there are a few possibilities.

    The federation president didn't have the power to legally declare a state of emergency, even on Earth, but he legally could give the admiral and Sisko a provisional go ahead with their side of a SOE, get the ball rolling. The fed prez then would have to legally call the Earth leader and government to make the SOE official. But he knew (or presumed) that they would agree with him once he presented the evidence.

    The admiral and Sisko went to the fed prez, instead of going directly to the Earth government, because they were going through their chain of command.

    If the Earth government didn't agree to the SOE (which apparently they did), then the fed prez would have had to reverse his instructions to the admiral and Sisko.

    Or, the federation presidents have special powers when it comes to Earth, owing to the council being located there, Earth being the center of the federation in many ways. He could only declare a state of emergency here and no where else in the federation.


    :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2012
  3. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    According to Ron Moore, they intentionally avoided mentioning the Earth government because it would have confused the audience.
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always thought it was dumb for them to assume the audience is dumb.
     
  5. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Just as an aside, "President of Earth" is an awesome title.
     
  6. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    IMO, the United Earth President signed off on Leyton's plan along with Federation President Jaresh-Inyo, but both didn't know that Leyton had based his plan upon fake evidence.
     
  7. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Emperor of Earth would be a better title :)
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Empress of Earth would be even better.
     
  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't get the impression that Earth has a military force other than Starfleet. And I get the impression most other planets have only small defense forces. The only time we really hear about a Federation planet which has its own defense force is Vulcan in Unification, and you don't get the impression it can really defend itself against an invasion.

    Also when Bajor was going to join the Federation it was stated that the military was going to be absorbed into Starfleet.

    My impression of the Earth government is that it's more an internal governance structure and doesn't have power over Starfleet military issues.
     
  10. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Vulcan has it's own defense forces, probably everybody does. There was also a ref in "Pale Moonlight" to Betazeds forces and Mars defense in "Best of Both Worlds". Maybe these all are analogous to the present-day Coast Guard and all Federation planets depened on Starfleet to protect them from big bads.
     
  11. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'd have to see it again and hear the language to be sure, but I think they said that the Bajorian forces would have to be integrated/coordinationed in some fashion with Starfleet. Not quite the same thing as absorbed. When a new member joins NATO, one of the things they have to do is change their military command and supply structure so that there can be coordination in the event of combined NATO military actions, but their forces aren't actually absorbed.

    I believe the question at hand is could Starfleet put troops in the streets, without the Earth government's permission. Especially given that there would appear to have been time to do it.

    It would make sense that there would have had to be some coordination with Earth military and police forces. In American today there are about 830,000 police. There's no way that a few thousand Starfleet personnel could guard the entire planet without some help from "the natives."

    :)
     
  12. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    Or it could be that, while every other planet maintains some form of independence, Earth is actually wholly UFP territory, and thus the UFP prez is directly in charge of Earth! :cardie:

    :)
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    T'Girl Starships have been able to stun entire continents of civilians (A Piece of the Action?) to no undue after effect since the time of kirk. If a Starship stuns you every time you go outside during curfew, you tend you tend to stay in doors.

    It's never been said, but imagine that Star Fleet Acadamy covers most of the globe not just half of Sanfransisco... that would make evey other earthling a "Townie".

    The penultimate episodes of Enterprise would have us believe, under some interpretations, that it's Prime Minister of Earth, but the Governmennt could have been reformatted after they reincorperated under the Federation banner.
     
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Well, the audience usually is dumb, but there's also practical storytelling considerations to take into account. If one were to be realistic and have the Earth government involved as well as a potential Earth based military force, it could have taken up valuable storytelling time just getting all that exposition out there. In the end, a streamlined approach is the best one.

    Here's the Federation President, he makes calls all shots on the civilian end on Earth. Here's a Starfleet Admiral, he calls all the shots in Starfleet, and wants the President out of the way. Eventually a state of emergency is declared, with Starfleet officers patrolling the streets. There, that's done, move along with the story.

    As opposed to:

    Here's the Federation President, he makes calls all shots on the civilian end for the Federation. Here's a Starfleet Admiral, he calls all the shots in Starfleet, and wants the President out of the way. But wait, there's also a Prime Minister of Earth, the Federation President can't make a ruling for Earth without consulitng with him. And so, even once the Admiral has taken out the President, he won't really have any power, since the Earth Prime Minister is calling the shots and won't recognize the authority of an Admiral who has just ousted a President. And what about the state of emergency? Shouldn't Starfleet colloborate with Earth's own military? See, this is just getting unnecessarily complicated. Remember, there's only 90 minutes to tell this story.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What would we really have lost if it was a four parter?

    Rules of Engagement or The Muse?

    imagine the Prime MInister of Earth walks into the room Looks Leighton in the face...

    "Earth accedes from the Federation. Get off my planet. We're keeping all your stuff."
     
  16. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Star Trek tends to assume the audience is a good mix of smart and dumb, and it toes that line better than most other TV shows.
     
  17. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, I don't know. Trek's idea of assuming the audience is smart is by having characters spew out confusing technical jargon in key scenes.
     
  18. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    He was off planet, he doesn't arrive till Tuesday.
     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not only is that not true, it would be inconceivable. It would mean that Earth citizens had no rights and no representation.

    Just ask anyone living in Washington, DC why that would be a problem.

    As for the eps in question: There were supposed to be scenes where Jaresh-Inyo "federalizes" United Earth personnel but it got cut for time.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What if the Federation bought (or leased?) Earth off man kind?

    All those human colonies out there!

    "To have Earth to use as our base, we will give the humanity 100 Class M Planets to colonize and do with as they will."