Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Warped9, May 16, 2010.
To quote Kirk from TUC: "People can be very frightened of change."
I'm not afraid of change. But I really resent the smell of crap.
All of your points in the OP have been shown to be wrong. The only real inconsistency is Pike's age, since he was born before the Kelvin attack, and that is only based on the age of the actors.
Vulcan doesn't even sound like a Vulcan name.
As this thread is about ST09, can it be moved there? I am sick unto death of threads about a film which has ZERO to do with Star Trek in the forum dedicated to it. Hell, there's already a thread in the I-X Movies forum largely dealing with this issue.
The film doesn't speak to ST. It is a reboot. The designs of ships and costumes don't represent those in the original timeline. The fates and backstories it postulates for its versions of the original characters do not speak to the originals nor alter them in any way. It has as much bearing as the Gold Key comics or LP audio adventures, namely none. It is as distinct a property from Star Trek as Batman (1966) is from Batman (1989).
Except for the fact that Old Spock is the guy from TOS (and hence the thread being here), thus it is connected to the old continuity in a way other reboots aren't, despite minor variations in spaceship and costume designs.
They claim TOS Spock went into the the Abramsverse.
No, he didn't. We don't know where he went, if he even went anywhere. But we can clearly see the old nuSpock in the Abramsverse isn't the TOS Spock...
...except for those covering their eyes and ears chanting, "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah..." And the only counter argument they have is, "Yes it is! They said so. Yes it is! They said so."
Curiously, today I watched yet another cherished property trashed: The recent Sherlock Holmes with Robert Downey Jr. What a yawner.
who watched the movie and don't have an ax to grind.
^^ I've seen the film twice. Never once saw TOS Spock. Just some guy who kinda looked like him but obviously didn't have the same memories.
He's Leonard Nimoy for goodness sake he's Spock Prime.
The only memory that was different was his assumption that Kirk was the captain of the Enterprise. Given that he was a 130+ year old man who had just watched a planet explode, been sucked through a black hole, captured by aliens, marooned on an ice planet, and watched his home planet implode, I think we can forgive him for not noticing that Kirk was ten years younger than he should have been.
It's hardly definitive.
It doesn't matter, anyway. It was that same old guy who used to play Spock, that's the important thing. Which Spock from TOS was he? Who knows... maybe he was the Spock from the universe in which Vulcan had once been conquered, or the Spock from the universe where general order 4 carried a death penalty. All we really know is that he isn't the Spock who once served with James R. Kirk.
If it's the same Spock than he did a lot more than time-travel. There were no Budweiser-powered starships the size of Enterprise-D in the 23rd century in his timeline - nor a second class-M planet in the Vulcan system, nor a Starfleet which promotes cadets directly to Captain. I don't see any "minor variations" here.
I can accept some retconing but the 23rd century in Star Trek XI bears no resemblance at all to the 23rd century of the real Star Trek so I don't see how any claim that they are the same can be taken seriously.
There is no evidence from TOS to support any of those claims.
So, to clarify:
TOS Spock goes in a black hole and then a different Spock comes out of the black hole into a new universe that had been made into a nunew universe because Nero had gone into the same Black Hole that TOS Spock went into and came out 25 years earlier than Magic Spock (the Spock that magically appeared in place of TOS Spock) and messed around with timeline of the new universe, thus creating the nunew universe. For some reason, the same Nero that went into the black hole came out the other end, unlike TOS Spock who was replaced by Magic Spock. TOS Spock is MIA and Magic Spock meets nuKirk who tells him about Magic Kirk (the Kirk that Magic Spock knew in his magic future). nuKirk and nuSpock defeat Original Nero and Magic Spock meets nuSpock at the end.
Are you saying an alternate Spock changed history to insure that his existence in the future is secure and becomes prevelant and supercedes the old Spock's position and time line? Didn't read rest of post yet. The new alternate spock is a sellout.
It is simultaneously being argued that it wasn't TOS Spock after all because his memories are inconsistent. So, it wasn't TOS Spock (unless it was), and he didn't emerge in an altered version of the TOS universe (unless he did).
The argument is a little confused. Ya gotta love Sundays.
What TOS Spock? I thought this was TNG Spock who'd spent all that time on Romulus. That guy's demonstrably from a different timeline than TOS Spock. TOS Spock was last seen on the bridge of the 1701-A in TUC.
^^ Well the argument with most fans is the acceptance that TNG era Spock is the older version of TOS era Spock. But to challenge that (which I would happily do) would be to say that TOS and TNG aren't of the same continuity either.
One debate at a time.
It's simpler. We don't know if TOS Spock (decades after TOS) ever went into a black hole. All we know is we see an older nuSpock emerge into the Abramsverse and this nuSpock doesn't have the same memories of our familiar TOS Spock. That and other things leads me to believe that this older nuSpock is from another alternate universe that seems to have much in common with the Abramsverse, but it certainly isn't the familiar TOS universe.
Wouldn't this be more alike the TNG episode where Worf is jumping from one alternate universe to another? And we're we always seeing the same Worf?
In the non-existent world of fiction known as Star Trek, whatever the writers say happened... happened. Whatever they write... happened.
Which means TOS Spock appeared in the new movie.
Really. He did. Accept and move on.
What they want is irrelevant if what they put onscreen contradicts it.
Really. He didn't. Accept it and move on.
Separate names with a comma.