Where did Spock go?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Warped9, May 16, 2010.

  1. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    I don't understand why this matters so much? The producers, the writers and the actor all wanted it to the TOS Spock - why does it scare people so much that this is the case?
     
  2. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Location:
    Florida Keys
    I think Delta Vega being in the Vulcan system is PLENTY enough to establish that this is a totally different universe.
     
  3. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Again, says who?

    I think it's mental that every time a writer makes an error there's someone out there going "Well this particular scene must be taking place in an alternate universe!".
     
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    If that's what they wanted then they should have adhered to what had already been established. They didn't and so whatever they wanted or intended doesn't matter in the least.
     
  5. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Or some planet renaming took place.
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    You must have read my mind T'Girl, because when I read Dukhat's post mentioning Romulan baldness as "proof" of an alternate universe I was sorely tempted to reply "You think that's bad? I read someone using stardates as an excuse to put STXI in another universe" :lol:

    I don't need JJ and friends to tell me it's TOS Spock. It simply is. As stated earlier, the arguments against it being TOS Spock could be used to split TOS into several universes, let alone the rest of the Trek franchise.
     
  7. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    But why do you care? Why does it scare/upset you so much?
     
  8. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    And so wouldn't it have been renamed with a Vulcan name if it's in the Vulcan system? Clearly Abrams tossed in all sorts of trek derived references with little thought about any logical consistency. He just wanted a slam-bam action movie with some familiar names. Fair enough for a reboot, but that still doesn't make it consistent with what had already been established. And as a reboot why is it even necessary to try connecting to TOS? Because he wanted some connection of legitimacy. But he fucked it up.

    That doesn't take anything away from those who enjoy the film, but it is in contradiction whatever he may or may not of "intended."
     
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    Pick up an atlas. Do you have any idea how many duplicate town names there are in the world?

    Why would the galaxy be any different?

    (Yeah, I'm aware it was a "cute reference" to TOS that's largely unappreciated, but it's also one of the easiest "issues" fixed/explained/glossed over/ignored)
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2010
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    It's a discussion for crissakes. What the hell are we all participating on a message board for? :rolleyes:
     
  11. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    If it was renamed by Vulcans.
    This is correct, they did fuck it up, so let's not let them off the hook for it by sweeping the whole thing under the proverbial rug.
     
  12. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Location:
    Florida Keys
    Planets in the Vulcan system would be named by Vulcans. And they are NOT going to name it Delta Vega.
     
  13. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Well here's something to consider: if one insists on believing that this is the original universe altered then you have to accept that everything previously in Trek has been wiped clean and is irrelevant. Just like nuVulcan it's all been destroyed.

    I see it more logically as, a) the prime original Star Trek and, b) the reimagined bizarro version of Trek.
     
  14. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    The Vulcan name could be unpronouncable to humans, like Spock's first name.
     
  15. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Unfortunately, it pretty much is irrelevant.

    However, no you don't, you can just accept that in this particular instance time travel works differently as a result of magic, sorry, red matter.

    There are always... possibilities.

    Besides, isn't the argument for it being the original universe altered a different one from Spock being TOS Spock or not?
     
  16. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I think we end up with both. There's enough evidence to show this isn't the TOS universe altered, and there's enough evidence to show that old nuSpock isn't TOS Spock.
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    No, you've decided there's "enough evidence". There's similar evidence that TOS isn't all the same universe. It doesn't make it so.
     
  18. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    You believe what you want and I believe what I want. That's essentially the point. For you it works. For me not by a long shot.

    The real reason many deliberately ignore the film's failings is because they desperately want the stamp of legitimacy. I'm not willing to concede it no matter what may or my not have been intended. I'll go by what they put on the screen because that's what matters.
     
  19. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Warped9, if if it makes it easier for you to sleep at night thinking that Spock Prime is from some other universe that the original TOS one, fine. Sweet dreams, I say. But when it comes to your fanon opinion versus the actual film producers' facts, then there's really no argument.

    I can only speak for myself, but I ignored the miniscule things that the film got wrong in terms of TOS chronology simply because I care nothing about those things. All I cared about was seeing an entertaining movie. And I'd bet that I'm just as much of a ST fan as you are, not some Joe Sixpack who went to se the movie for all the pretty explosions.
     
  20. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    It seems that you're ignoring the film's failings by trying to sweep it under the proverbial rug of an alternate universe. I'm quite happy to accept that it's a shoddy addition to the existing Trek franchise, much like any other episode or movie I dislike.