Where did Spock go?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Warped9, May 16, 2010.

  1. 3D Master

    3D Master Rear Admiral

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    Actually, Bread and Circuses talks about a nuclear holocaust. Which is probably where the racial purging of Colonel Green occurred.
     
  2. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    I've checked the transcript and I'm pretty sure it doesn't!
     
  3. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Nope, I'm pretty sure there's no such reference in "Bread And Circuses."
     
  4. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Here is more evidence that the Kelvin was not designed in the Prime Universe. this image came from a Julien's catalogue. the weapon looks nothing like the Cage lasers. Unless someone think it is a transition form between the Phase pistols of ST:Enterprise and the lasers of Pike and crew?
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Nice find!

    Why assume there's only one model of phaser in use at any one time? You can't say that about the military of today.

    STII, III, V and VI all had different phaser designs. The STII ones showed up again on the Enterprise-C in "Yesterday's Enterprise", and the STIII ones cropped up in TNG. I remember old Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise saying that several companies provided various weapon models to Starfleet.
     
  6. Lieut. Arex

    Lieut. Arex Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Correct. "Bread and Circuses" confirms the three world wars mentioned in "Space Seed" which is no surprise considering Coon wrote/co-wrote both. Kirk's mention of Earth avoiding a nuclear holocaust is supported by Spock's statement in "Omega Glory" that the Yangs and Kohms, in their post-apocalyptic world, "fought the war your Earth avoided". Populations can be bombed out of existence ("Space Seed" with conventional weapons and Col. Green's series of genocidal wars need not have been global or nuclear. Most likely similar to, but larger than the ethnic cleansing seen in the Balkans during the 1990's.
     
  7. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Star Trek is filled to the gills with time travel. If they can go back and save the whales, they can go back and save Vulcan. It's not like there's no access to a starship, and Old Spock could show them how to do it. "Hey Jim, how'd you like to save my planet and your dad? All you gotta do is go back in time and phaser Nero to hell before all this gets going. Hey, he's gonna die by your hand anyway, might as well kill him and save some lives in the process, right? And, the best part, you STILL get to be cap'n and hang out with all of us!"

    Unless, of course, this really isn't TOS Spock and he never did the slingshot thing and doesn't know how to time travel.

    I like Cracker Jacks.
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    As I said earlier, Spock "fixing" the timeline would essentially murder Kirk and replace him with the TOS version, alter the last 25 years of trillions of people and condemn Romulus and Remus to death in 2387.

    Spock is not god. He doesn't have the right. STXIKirk has the same right to live as TOS Kirk had. The damage was already done by the time Spock arrived in the past.

    All Spock could do was minimize further damage.
     
  9. 3D Master

    3D Master Rear Admiral

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    I know there is at least one episode in S3 that mentions there was a atomic/nuclear holocaust, but if it isn't Bread and Circuses, I don't know which one it exactly is. Do notice that a holocaust is not a war. It seems that even if we used nuclear weapons in the 21st century WWIII, it wasn't used in a full-fledged exchange.
     
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm. As opposed to the countless number wiped out by erasing the TOS timeline?

    But it doesn't matter because the TOS timeline wasn't wiped out because the Abramsverse isn't the original.
     
  11. xortex

    xortex Commodore

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    Spock is not changing the past as much as he is restoring it and the future.
     
  12. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If Spock uses time travel to take a large enough force to stop Nero before he destroyed Vulcan how does that change things drastically?
    They could use the same technique of getting the Red Matter loose in the Narada before destroying it.
     
  13. Smiley

    Smiley Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The whole slingshot around the sun to time travel business has to be forgotten by necessity in order to have dramatic consequences. Otherwise, they should have changed a lot of things post-"The Naked Time." The other alternative is that those who try to change history are frequently prevented from doing so by future timeships or some other agency. We really don't know if Spock tried to prevent Vulcan's destruction or not. The movie had to end, and that consequence had to stick in order for the galaxy to be an unpredictable place again.
     
  14. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    "Restoring the future" at the cost of the lives of nuKirk and co.

    Two wrongs don't make a right.

    Who's to say the 2387 of the alternate universe will be any less prosperous than the other? Although there is no Vulcan, there is the chance to save the people of Romulus and Remus this time. You all saw how much history had diverged in 25 years. What would the next 129 hold?
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    If you include the future of the alternate timeline (which since we're playing time police we should) it's about the same amount of nonexistance/death on either side.

    The alternate universe stems from the TOS one, starting in 2233. Your fanon isn't strong enough to change this.
     
  16. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Nero's appearance altered history, and it cost billions of lives on Vulcan.

    How can you honestly argue in favor of that level of destruction?
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Because restoring the timeline to TOS would be a death sentence for Romulus and Remus in 2387. Vulcans wouldn't want their world to live at the expense of two others, even those of their enemies.

    Kirk, Pike and Spock Prime know what's gonna happen. There's a chance the Romulan homeworlds will can be evacuated by 2387.
     
  18. Smiley

    Smiley Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    On the face of it, trying to change that destruction would seem like the moral thing to do, and it may have been tried by Spock or other parties after the events of Trek XI. However, the destruction of Vulcan in this universe may lead to a chain of history that bypasses other potential calamities. Just like Enterprise-C had to be sacrificed to prevent a Federation-Klingon war in "Yesterday's Enterprise," Vulcan's loss might have a similar effect on the future of the Abrams universe. Nobody wants billions to die, but it increases the potential drama in later stories because we do not know what will happen next.
     
  19. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    And we're back to this again. It isn't my fanon. It's what on the damned screen. You can put blinders on and cover your ears and hum real loud and it doesn't change anything.
     
  20. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Please, things look different in the movie because it's a movie made now and not forty years ago.

    The morality of time travel "fixes" and the judgment of Spock and everyone else in Trek is always conveniently tailored to the plot of the episode, be it "City On The Edge Of Forever," "All Our Yesterdays " or "The Voyage Home." The writers in this case set things up so that it's not within Spock's power to do anything about cosmic events - that's all. There's no point in citing Spock's past "character" as an excuse to claim that Spock isn't actually Spock.

    Spock Prime is Spock from TOS because Nimoy and everyone associated with the movie say that he is. They get the first, last and only word on what's an actual part of Trek "canon" and what's just folks blowing smoke on a BBS.