Where are those big windows on the Enterprise model on the set?

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by DS9forever, Jan 12, 2014.

  1. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Yes. It's really ridiculous when you examine the issue. The studio set had three forward sections with 3 windows each.

    However, the 6-footer VFX model only had two forward sections with 3 windows with noticable space in between those. Not a chance to fit the Ten Forward location there (could "Ten" stand for ten tables?).

    So they tried to fix their screw-up with the 4-footer, somehow trying to overwrite the existing 6-footer. :wtf:

    Of course, building the 4-footer they could have used the occasion to match the windows ahead of the NCC-1701-D.

    But unfortunately they had already shown an exterior shot at the beginning of Season Two, so they couldn't or wouldn't pursue the chance to present the lower windows as a second location option - worse, they turned the lights off. :brickwall:

    Bob
     
  2. Rick Sternbach

    Rick Sternbach Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In the canceled DeAgostini Japan Ent-D project data, I came up with a way to have our cake and eat it too. I described a yard change which removed the chunky deflector hardware from the window area, and installed new transparent deflector arrays and restored the visual clarity to the rooms in that area. So folks serving aboard Galaxy class vessels can enjoy raktajino or prune juice or a really, really good margarita while taking in the view.

    Rick
     
  3. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Well okay then! :lol:
     
  4. treknician1701

    treknician1701 Lieutenant Commander

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    This was always a problem. On the top of the saucer, allegedly, was Captain Picard's quarters, where you see these windows, and the set windows are not LONG enough.
    It would have been good if there was somewhere on the sets that had the lower windows like that. It almost was, in "First Contact" movie, where Picard was showing the Earth, out of one of the windows, which was sort of like a lower window like that.
    But, this is sort of like the "Jupiter 2" saucer from "Lost in Space", the model doesn't fit with the set design.
     
  5. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Right. The set interior windows were a standard re-use, same angle.

    But the saucer exterior shows that most all windows were much less sloped, nearly horizontal overhead (or underfoot, depending on saucer level). And much larger, too.

    That's okay.
     
  6. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't help but think that transparency would interfere with the deflector being able to emit energy in the visible wavelengths. But what the heck do I know from 24th century technology? ;)
     
  7. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since we never saw this "saucer deflector" in use or indicated in screen, and since those were originally intended to be windows, it's easier to assume they were always windows.
     
  8. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I honestly think this would be a good opportunity to make use of your "Bat-Phone hotline" so we can all dispense with the "assuming" and start the "knowing". ;)

    Bob
     
  9. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What's to phone? Andy Probert has said in interviews those were designed to be windows.
     
  10. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Then that is what they are with no need to assume what they are (unless there is onscreen information indicating otherwise, which apparently isn't the case).

    Bob
     
  11. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    :) Here it is from the man himself:

     
  12. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    Well there ya go!
     
  13. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But that's just his opinion, the technical manual said it's a deflector, I put more weight on that. Just because Andrew Probert drew the ship doesn't mean he get's to decide what's what.
     
  14. Keith1701

    Keith1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  15. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Then do you accept that many of the numbers on the lifeboats are backwards just because they appear so on the blueprints that were sold?
     
  16. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    The "sole person officially credited with the design for the USS Enterprise-D" doesn't get to decide what's what? :wtf:

    He didn't just drew the ship, he designed every detail about it and influenced the actual construction of the VFX model. In essence he is the creator of the ship and did care about the tiniest details. Seriously, who could or should know better than him?

    Bob
     
  17. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    On his own, no, he doesn't get to decide. His intentions are just that, intentions, he designed the shape of the ship, the producers, writers, set designers etc. all had a hand in bringing the ship to life, filling its interiors and deciding what's what.

    It's not about knowing better, it's about the reality of Star Trek as a tv series and a franchise, no one get's to do or decide things in a vacuum. Andrew Probert intended for the saucer rim to be one deck, the show made it two instead, he intended for the saucer not to have warp drive and while it was never directly stated to have it on the show it's already obvious in the pilot, the saucer did not drop out of warp after the separation and made it back to Farpoint on its own in a short time, that would have been impossible without some kind of warp.

    If there was no other information I would defer to his intentions but for me licensed material trumps his intentions and the tv show trumps everything.
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    A lot changes between the design phase and what we see on TV. The designers are part of the process, but theirs is the first word, not the final - Ten Forward being TNG's case in point. IIRC, DS9's USS Defiant was designed with landing gear and no shuttle bay, but it ended up the other way around. The USS Voyager was designed with two computer cores and two warp cores but the stories themselves made it explicitly clear they had one of each. The new Enterprise was designed to be 366m, but plans changed and the CG model was made, detailed and sets built/locations used for a much larger 700m+ size.

    That's not to say designer input, showing us how they originally conceived everything, isn't fascinating and insightful.
     
  19. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    ...but in the inevitable process doubled the size of the Enterprise-D.
    So when they made the small VFX model to accomodate Ten Forward, did the model makers accordingly reduce the size of the conference lounge windows, the shuttlebay doors and the docking ports?!?

    Because if they didn't (and I'm not aware they did) the producers created a contradiction.
    So it's not just Andrew Probert's intention standing against size and location of Ten Forward, but the conference lounge and other locations whose sizes had been well established. ;)

    I'm not aware that the episode did provide enough information to justify this conclusion. The separation could have taken place already in the Farpoint system. Always looked to me as if Picard wanted to deliver the saucer to safety first and then turned back to stop Q.

    I definitely can see both sides of the argument, i.e. creator's intent vs. what actually ended up on screen (apparently the basic reference for anyone to participate in treknological discussions, especially for those that do not have the behind-the-scenes information some of us do have).

    But because Maurice observed that we never saw this "saucer deflector" in use or indicated on screen, the final TV Show doesn't trump anything here.

    So then, licensed material trumps the intentions of the original creator?

    Ain't that just great? :rolleyes: Bad research and/or arrogance ("I know better") gets rewarded at the expense of the original designer.
    Sounds to me like an attitude that's not compatible with the spirit of Star Trek and/or TNG. YMMV.

    Bob
     
  20. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The extreme slope and curves of the Enterprise D was always problematic. The sets were never able to fully depict the shape of the ship and in fact often contradicted the model.

    For instance:

    1) Picard's Ready Room has that single vertical window that he occasionally stares out of. However the model is all curves. There is no flat section on the bridge module.

    2) The shuttle bays in the neck clearly have sloped walls yet the standing set had doors that rose straight up. (I never understood why they did that anyway since all they needed to do was give the wall with the door a slight slope).

    3) The windows on the crew quarters were never big enough for the rooms. They should have gone from floor to ceiling and been at a sharper angle (or been on the ceiling).