when will we have a bluray?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by JekylHyde, Oct 26, 2010.

  1. JekylHyde

    JekylHyde Ensign Red Shirt

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    Hi
    i know that there is a bluray for all the films
    & for the first original tv show
    & for the last show enterprise
    but what with:
    The Next Generation
    Deep Space Nine
    Voyager
    will we see a bluray/HD DVD for them soon?
    thanks
     
  2. Cheapjack

    Cheapjack Fleet Captain

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    I think they're going to do it soon, and well. The episodes on freeview and DVD are a bit washed out and you can't see the wrinkles on the faces.
     
  3. JekylHyde

    JekylHyde Ensign Red Shirt

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    are you teasing me? ;)
     
  4. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Almost certainly never.

    The TNG-era series were all edited on video-tape which only stored an SD image, so to release TNG in HD they would have to re-edit all the episodes to exactly replicate the video edits. What's more, all the visual effects would need to be redone too as they were also done on video tape. The cost of doing this would be huge, and they might not make a return on investment, so there's no real incentive to do it. There's a small chance they may do it for TNG as TNG was hugely popular, but there's almost no chance they'd do it for DS9 or Voyager.

    (In case you're wondering, TOS was edited on film, so it was much easier to transfer it to HD, they only needed to update the visual effects.)
     
  5. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    No, they wanted to update the visual effects. The fact that they have included the original versions of the episodes on blu-ray proves they didn't have to update them.
     
  6. RyuRoots

    RyuRoots Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Fine. Didn't need to, but it sure helps a show that is painfully dated, visually (and in other ways too if you ask me, but that's beside the point).
     
  7. JohnChod

    JohnChod Captain Captain

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    Touché
     
  8. The Trekster

    The Trekster Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    What TheGodBen said. They'll need to recut every episode. Which isn't as much work as redoing all of the vidual effects, but honestly, it wouldn't even be that hard.

    And I'm gonna disagree that they won't make a return on their investment. Are you telling me that Trekkies are not going to buy up HD versions of TNG and VOY in droves?\

    I see the reasons why it's harder and why they may not do it, but IMO, the pros far outweigh the cons, and if they look into it, I'm sure TPTB would agree that's it totally worth it.
     
  9. Rarewolf

    Rarewolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You can release (a lot of) SD material on BluRay of course, it just wouldn't offer any improvement over the DVDs. It wouldn't make it HD.
     
  10. JekylHyde

    JekylHyde Ensign Red Shirt

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    i don't understand
    if they shot it in SD then they can't upscale it. you can't make HD out of SD unless you re-shot the show again.
     
  11. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, it's possibly more work than redoing the visual effects. Editing an episode takes days, re-editing an episode to exactly match the original version would be a nightmare of a task, even with modern editing software. I don't know how well the film negatives are archived, but they'd need to find the right scene, the right angle, the right take, and then get the timing exactly right for each transition. That's not only hard, it's extremely dull for the editors too because they wouldn't be able to add any of themselves to it, it would be pure replication of someone else's work. Even TOS-R wasn't beholden to complete replication of the VFX original shots.

    I'm certainly not, I paid enough for the DVDs, thank you very much. I don't even have a blu-ray player. Blu-ray players are still a niche item at the moment, and Star Trek fandom is a niche group already. The market just isn't there, not yet.

    The only way this would be worthwhile is if they got a syndication deal out of it like TOS-R, where some HD station buys the rights to air each season as they're produced and the blu-rays come out later. Even there, it's still debatable if they'd make a return on investment.

    They shot it on proper film, and that can be converted to HD-digital. Unfortunately, as a cost-cutting measure, they edited the episodes together on video-tape, and that only has an SD resolution. They have all the shots archived on film, so they could make new edits from that and convert it to HD-digital, but the time and the cost of doing that would probably be too much.
     
  12. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    As of right now, no. However, with line doubling and raw computer power HD versions are bound to come out. Later rather than sooner to be sure. Right now it's just too expensive and time consuming to transfer it all to HD. Once those two barriers come down, look for ALL the old video edited TV shows coming out on Bluray.
     
  13. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    SEINFELD was able to spare the expense of re-editing all of their episodes in order to release them in HD (the Blu-Rays have yet to emerge, but they're already being aired in HD on television).

    It's true, STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION probably has a smaller audience than SEINFELD (it had about half the Nielsen audience during its run), but it still had a big audience.

    The release on Blu-Ray by CBS Paramount is not a question of if, but a question of when. It may be a few years, but it's pretty unlikely that CBS Paramount will forgo the revenue opportunities of converting the most popular series in the STAR TREK franchise to HD. The further spin-offs, which feature much more elaborate visual effects and had decreasing audiences, are a much more open question when it comes to HD versions. Only ENTERPRISE is assured one, since it already exists in HD (albeit with up-converted visual effects).
     
  14. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    The HD Seinfeld episodes I've seen, especially from the first few seasons are horrible. They are grainy and spotty. These could be up scaled version shown on the HD channel, and not true HD, but if it is HD, it's terrible.
     
  15. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    I haven't actually seen the HD episodes in question, but apparently there are two different versions out there. One which comes from the original 35mm film, and another which is simply upscaled to HD. Unless the job they did on the early episodes was horrible, I suspect you saw the up-converted episodes.
     
  16. KirkPicard

    KirkPicard Captain Captain

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    According to an article from the website, TVshowsonDVD back in August:

    [LEFT]In a response to a question about TNG on Blu-ray, CBS Consumer Products VP John Van Citters told the convention crowd in Las Vegas that releasing Star Trek: The Next Generation on Blu-ray was much more "problematic" than the original Star Trek, due to how the TNG original effects shots were composited, and how that makes the transfer to HD "incredibly difficult without making them look awful." However, he also said that there is "a lot of conversations going on" within CBS on how to convert TNG to HD, and Van Citters expressed optimism noting "It is being worked on and I expect it will happen, it is just a technical challenge."

    Following his talk, I confirmed with Van Citters that even though he is optimistic that the challenges will be met, as of now there is no specific plan or budget for the project within CBS. So this is still something that is a long-term project.

    Taken from: http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Star-Trek-Generation-Blu-ray-Possibilities/14252#ixzz13dHZmzCj[/LEFT]
     
  17. The Fatman

    The Fatman Captain Captain

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    In the thread in the TNG forum, someone suggested they take The Best of Both Worlds, update effects, full HD, the whole works, and release it theatrically (just like what they did with The Menagerie for TOS). This would serve both to raise funds for the Blu-Ray project, and gauge general interest. I personally thought that was a very good idea.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    With a show like Seinfeld, there are no special effects to deal with. I believe the episodes, which I have seen, on TBS are just cropped to a 16:9 aspect ratio (no stretching of image on the edges). Up til about season 4, they look rough... the later seasons look much better.

    It would be nice if they do release Seinfeld on Blu-Ray that we get both the 4:3 and 16:9 versions.

    I'm honestly not sure we'll ever see HD versions of The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine or Voyager. The images are just to soft and fuzzy for them to do a quality upscaling and the amount of reworking needed for the original film with new effects would be expensive. Plus we have no idea what type of shape the original film is in or if it even exists (completely) anymore.

    I think we're just going to have to be satisfied with the current home video releases.
     
  19. The Trekster

    The Trekster Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm an indie filmmaker, and I shoot and edit most of my work myself. I can tell you that editing is always tedious (it takes far far more than days to cut a 45min show), but this is these folks' job. It's always a bitch and the process is no different for re-cutting the film than it would have been for the first edit.

    You've always got rolls and rolls of film and you always need to sort through and find the right shot and the right take. But that's what your scripty is for, to keep track of all the shots and which roll they are on (amongst other things). Not to mention, in the first edit, someone already did that for you. They don't just cut the film with scissors and throw stuff out or shove it in a box unlabeled. And typically post prod flow would include a logging of which footage has been used where (especially at the hollywood level).

    Once you have the right shot and take, getting the timing right is a breeze. Not only does your NLE allow you to synchronize the shots so the frames match up perfectly, but then it's simply a matter of counting frames and looking at the time code (usually something that is recorded on paper during the editing process, btw).

    SFX-wise, I'd be totally fine if they completely re-did them. Isn't that part of what remastering is supposed to accomplish? Updating effects as well as visual quality?

    It's definitely true that blu-ray hasn't taken off as folks in the distribution business have hoped. This is mainly due to the economy's bubble bursting(in 2000, even) and people having less interest/ability to buy luxury items. This is why the price hasn't come down and why there are major compatibility issues even within the format.

    So we'll see if blu-ray lasts. One thing is for sure though, HD itself isn't going anywhere.
     
  20. The Trekster

    The Trekster Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    That's a fantastic idea!
     

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