Whatever happened to Type I phasers

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Enterprise1981, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. bryce

    bryce Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It always seems (on screen) like the smaller type 2 phasers are just as powerful as the bigger, bulkier type 1 that they fit into (and I'm guessing that he type 2 is the beam-creating component)...

    But really, the Type 2 extension should add extra life and extra power and range.
     
  2. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Nice pic Bryce. Are there any more of that smaller Type 1?
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    http://www.phasers.net/2280/st5prop1.jpg

    From "Devil in the Dark", the Type 2 handle certainly adds "penetrating power", making the weapon useful against the silicon beast whereas Type 1 was somehow inherently incapable of hurting it.

    TNG backstage doubletalk gives the bigger guns more "options" (in addition to power settings) and suggests that Type 1 can "barely" vaporize targets at its highest setting (eight lights glowing) whereas Type 2 and Type 3 have eight additional power settings beyond this basic vaporize. It's a dramatic conceit first and foremost: how much more firepower can you add beyond being able to completely make your enemy disappear?

    If you can remove the rock behind which he hides, fine. But can you also remove the building in which his HQ lies? The hill behind which he is camping? Treknologically, you should be able to do that with your sidearm. But what does the ability do to drama?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

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  5. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "This phaser goes to eleven!"
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup, 8+8 green lights. Whether this means setting 8 or setting 16, we might debate. After all, in "Frame of Mind", Riker says setting 16 should remove half a building, and Worf uses the setting for blasting away a lot of rock in "Chain of Command". OTOH, backstage material says that setting 8 is the lowest that will remove the target from existence - thus the setting Riker would need to put Yuta out of her misery, without a smidgen of overkill.

    Perhaps the lights turn red for settings 9-16?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe he cranked it up to 16 because she showed some kind of extra resistance?
     
  8. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, she did. Rationally, Riker couldn't keep giving her chances; he'd already given her two. Maxing it was the most he could do, and it was time for that. I mean, my perception was that maxing the setting, to whatever full-strength disintegrate was, was the intent.
     
  9. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Right. IIRC, he had already hit her with stun settings and she was still standing so the kill setting might not have stopped her from reaching her target.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not succumbing to various levels of stun or kill just means Yuta isn't your average humanoid. But not succumbing to setting 8, the vaporization of matter, would mean Yuta isn't made of matter!

    I don't see the reason for overkill beyond setting 8. Especially since there was an immense risk of collateral damage, with important political figures around the table and a lot at stake with keeping them alive and well.

    This is why the 16 green lights don't give me quite the level of satisfaction a treknology nerd like me should be getting here...

    (However, the previous settings at least make great sense. The first would be some sort of standard or heavy stun, the same Riker has already used on the Gatherer henchmen. The second appears to be something like Level 5, which the TNG Tech Man equates with "thermal effects" (kill or at least seriously maim but without vaporizing).

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. Metryq

    Metryq Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A Krell id monster!
     
  12. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In ST VI, this had a scope and rifle butt on it too.
    It's my favorite--apart from the one piece Galaxy quest phaser--that was better than the ST II version--rather like the JJ version.

    Now wasn't there a phaser for ST:TMP that was a bit fatter than the ST II flathead version?
     
  13. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...Before it was decided that the assassin should masquerade as a Klingon, at which point the design was completely changed:

    http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tuchd/ch13/tuchd2438.jpg

    Nice touch on that stock, looking like the Klingon trefoil symbol! But the Starfleet phaser no longer remains as a component of that gun.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  14. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah... the Scooby-Doo ending....

    --Alex
     
  15. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I sort of liked that.

    I mean, it's obvious that a plot to ignite war is not something both sides of the war would be jointly planning, not in good faith. There must be a backstabbing Plan B (indeed, Plan A) behind each side's participation in the seeming mutually accepted, joint plot. But it would have to be an intricate dance of mirrored moves and disingenuous maintaining of balance and appearances. So, just like General Chang fires "Federation" torpedoes at peacenik ships, Admiral Cartwright would be expected to be ordering "Klingon" snipers to assassinate doves...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  16. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

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    They would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those meddling old folks!
     
  17. Saturn0660

    Saturn0660 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What would make you think that? She says her "cells were altered". For all we know one of the "upgrades" she got was a resistance to energy based weapons.
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is based exclusively on the TNG Tech Manual backstage speculation on what settings the TNG Type 1, 2 and 3 phasers have. It is only according to that book that Type 1 has Level 8 as the highest setting, this being the first one capable of making matter go away. Only one choice available for Type 1 users in removing matter; that, plus eight more, for Type 2 or Type 3 users.

    Now, Type 1 has been seen removing enemy soldiers out of existence (e.g. "Hide and Q"), as well as blasting holes in doors or other non-humanoid objects (e.g. "Too Short a Season"). It's demonstrably a diverse make-go-away tool. All with that one make-go-away setting! Even if Yuta were made of exotic materials, this wouldn't protect her from sustained Level 8 fire, which can thus be considered a "mercy killing" setting, something that is absolutely certain to work on her - eventually.

    Sure, we have seen certain creatures or people resist phaser fire before. But none of those instances (Rogar in "The Hunted", MacDuff in "Conundrum" etc.) featured explicit use of Level 8 (or higher), the way "The Vengeance Factor" did.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Saturn0660

    Saturn0660 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, by that logic then ANYTHING you hit at level 8 will be "gone". And we know thats not true at all. I have no problems with anything not being "gone" at level 8.
    I get where you are coming but think it makes it to easy to think it's always "gone".
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not true? How so? Are there examples of levels 8+ being used and the target not being removed from existence altogether?

    Individual objects often simply get "gone" when phasered. Sometimes not, but IIRC never in a situation where we'd know of the set level. High settings in TNG are quoted on occasion (Level 10 in "Aquiel", Level 16 in "Frame of Mind" and "Chain of Command"), and they create holes in dense material, apparently by this mysterious "vaporization" or "continuum disruption" process because the edges of the hole do not get hot or anything. The material is indeed simply "gone".

    The one exception to this is listed at Memory Alpha: in DS9 "The Forsaken", the (Type 2) phaser setting referred to as "maximum" failed to penetrate a physical wall with "toranium inlay". This sounds like the material toranium (yes, it's a material and not a fancy shielding technology, as it is a plausible bulk cargo later on in "Second Skin") won't be "gone" with a hit. But technically we don't get to hear what this "maximum" setting would have been - absolute highest notch on the scale, or the highest allowed by relevant regulations.

    Timo Saloniemi