What would it take for you to forgive a Trek movie you hate.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by GalaxyX, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well for me, I really do hate the following:

    1. Generations
    2. Insurrection
    3. Nemesis

    I don't really know who's to blame, but it's almost like those 3 films were like an autoimmune attack on the TNG franchise itself. They single handedly destroyed everything that was good about TNG.
     
  2. VST

    VST Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Hate is such a strong word, I feel. As others have said, I find nothing to precisely hate about the Trek films, even if some are a bit more duff than others.

    TMP - in many ways it's the *most* Trek film of them all, given how truly alien & wondrous V'Ger is. I've reappraised this one much more in recent years as under appreciated - though it lacks the warmth & charm TOS had, so that could have been more in place.

    TWOK - it's hard to see how such a sublime movie could be bettered. The only thing I always miss is a face to face Kirk/Khan confrontation, but I also like the whole 'submarine bridge commander' regality of their conflict, so… it's as close to a perfect Trek film as I can conceive.

    TSFS - tonally it doesn't quite click, it's all over the shop. It wants to be a romp at times like TOS, then it wants to be quite epic in scope, and then it wants to be a tragedy & quite nasty in the bargain. I'd try & streamline the tone of this one to not be so skittish.

    TVH - again, I struggle to find fault, because I love this one so much. I can't imagine how I'd improve it.

    TFF - it's very TOS in spirit but it's fundamentally flawed in terms of concept & approach. The script is really the major problem, because some of the ideas are really quite good - Sybok, especially, I'd quite like to see him re-imagined in the new continuity. The whole thing needed a few more drafts so that's what I'd like to see.

    TUC - I'm such a Nick Meyer fanboy. Yet again, just one of the great Trek films it's hard to imagine could be bettered.

    GEN - many people I think have suggested Kirk's death is a bit… naff. Better than being shot in the back as originally scripted but there must have been a better way for the big man to go out than this? That's my biggest bugbear. Beyond that, despite being a little inconsistent & not having the strength of its convictions, it's not half as bad a film as people say.

    FC - while it's a lot of fun, this one has similar problems to TSFS in that it's tonally jarring; it's two movies, one a dark action Captain Ahab story for Picard, another quite a TOS-style time travel knockabout romp & while both individually good, neither properly gel together. I'd have ran with one or the other more.

    INS - it's just a two-parter, isn't it? That's the problem. Nothing wrong with the idea, or Piller's writing, or the acting, it's just TNG playing it very safe without the scope for a motion picture.

    NEM - aka The Wrath of Shinzon. Such a rip-off, more so than homage than John Logan would claim. I like parts of it, but my biggest issue is that it's so far away from TNG it's untrue - it's just an overblown action pic when TNG was never tonally that kind of piece. And it was a lacklustre swan song for the crew.

    ST09/STID - I'm still too close to these both to judge (that doesn't mean I'm in love with both, because I see STID's faults, just ask me in 5 years :D)
     
  3. tharpdevenport

    tharpdevenport Admiral Admiral

    The best way to not catch any STD's is to completely avoided getting JJ'd.
     
  4. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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  5. VST

    VST Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Sounds like a JJ hater to me. I got the pun.
     
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What would it take for me to forgive a Trek movie I hate?

    A sincere apology. A refund for my ticket price plus concessions adjusted for inflation and with interest. Oh, and a box of chocolates might help.

    Then I'd forgive... but I'd never forget.
     
  7. The Entire Bee Movie But

    The Entire Bee Movie But Badass Admiral

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    Remember, remember... the ninth of June, 1989?
     
  8. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Good overall commentary, VST. Much to read and consider. :)

    This is not a criticism in any way to you or anyone else, but this term in bold caught my eye, as I've seen it used, in various wordings, a number of times before.

    As I interpreted from the series, time travel was a pretty big, serious deal. They did manage to have a little light note here and there, dealing with the time differences (I always liked Kirk wordlessly motioning to the bulletin board notice to Sulu in Tomorrow is Yesterday, for example). A "romp" to me sounds more like an 80's advertising term applied to the film. "We have a flop." "A What, Captain?" "A place to sleep." "One might have said so in the first place." isn't what I'd call a romp! :)

    Maybe it's just me... :shrug:
     
  9. VST

    VST Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for reading my rambles! :)

    I get what you mean about my phrasing, but I guess what I'm getting at is the fact FC's comedy doesn't quite balance nicely with its more serious side; if anything there's a real lack of urgency about the on-Earth stuff, with Cochrane getting Deanna pissed & stuff like Barclay being awkward etc… when you've got Picard going off the deep end & the Enterprise being overran by Borg, then you cut to Riker & Geordi frankly having a whale of a time, I just don't buy it.

    Perhaps I'm being a stick in the mud. I know why they put the lighter stuff in there, for the levity to balance out the drama/horror, but… I just think it dilutes the mixture.
     
  10. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I wanted to like FC, but the only thing interesting about the Borg is that they were a collective. Once they took that away and retconned the Borg into a hive, we were left with a story out of a 1950s b-movie. Sad that it's still the "best" TNG film.
     
  11. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well stated, and I think you're right.

    Maybe I'm confusing the original series with Next Gen, but whenever some deadline loomed, there was always someone to bring it up occasionally (i.e., "I remind you that we have only twelve hours until our rendezvous with so-and-so."

    I could be wrong, but I recall no such thing planetside in First Contact.
     
  12. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They did when Riker finally just shot Cochrane "we don't have time for this".
     
  13. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You're right.

    Now I'm wondering if maybe I should re-watch this stuff. I'm tending to remember the broad strokes of the stories, and details are fading. That's hardly grounds for offering opinions, based on half-remembered things.