What would it take for you to forgive a Trek movie you hate.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by GalaxyX, Jul 7, 2014.

  1. martok2112

    martok2112 Commodore Commodore

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    Late to the game here. If I have echoed anyone's sentiments other than those I directly cite, it is coincidence.

    That said:

    I would have to agree with Christopher 100%. They're just movies.
    (deleted....sounded too combative...and I ain't here for that....apologies to those who may have read it before the edit.) :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Speak for yourself. I think Nemesis is the best of the TNG films and love the two Abrams films.
     
  3. martok2112

    martok2112 Commodore Commodore

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    Welcome, brother. We have been expecting you. :devil:

    Yes, Nemesis is my favorite TNG film as well (despite its many flaws), and I love the two JJ films. Those were the Trek movies I've waited over 40 years for. :)
     
  4. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    NEM is my second-favorite TNG movie (after FC), and both of Abrams' films are in my top five Trek films. :techman:
     
  5. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    The more I see it the more I hate nemesis, mainly because the story I wish they had told wasn't the one they came up with. Nemesis should have been a pure Romulan story, with Sela or Tomalak (katsulas might have been dead when Nemesis premiered) returning, ending with Jerok's letter finally being returned home.
     
  6. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed on all points. But Nemesis could have been a fair bit better in several ways.
     
  7. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thinking Nemesis is he best NextGen film isn't exactly praising it. :lol:
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Looking at your sig, I'd have thought you were a big fan of Into Darkness!:rommie:
     
  9. Vger23

    Vger23 Captain Captain

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    The only Star Trek movie I don't enjoy ("hate" is WAY too strong a word) is Insurrection. Unfortunately, the stated goal in making this film was basically to "tone it down" and make it mediocre. While I understand what they were trying to do...essentially re-capture the TVH goal of presenting something light after two very heavy and emotional films...that just doesn't work for the TNG characters. Insurrection is basically an attempt to be mediocre. And, the result is a tepid, bloodless, uninteresting story. It's really an embarrassing film in a lot of ways.

    I'm not sure what you'd need to do to fix it. Maybe go back to the original story idea that was designed to prolong the "Picard hunting for Data" plot into the entire theme of the movie (Heart of Darkness). The original outline also had the Romulans as the main villains if I remember correctly, and was much less fluffy and silly. I guess that would be a start.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought the face stretching of Dougherty was pretty cool. Outside of that and the "Gilbert and Sullivan" routine, I don't much care for Insurrection.
     
  11. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    2013 in my sig is a reference to Star Trek Continues...for now anyway.
     
  12. Vger23

    Vger23 Captain Captain

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    There's definitely some bits to like. I enjoy the Geordi sunrise scene...one of Levar Burton's only chances to do something interesting in the film series. I also enjoy the location shooting and cinematography. I think Marina Sirtis looks hot. Riker with a shaved face is pretty cool and takes you back to the very beginning.

    Other than that...pretty lukewarm stuff.
     
  13. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Do you mean no Picard and co?
    Would people be interested in that?
     
  14. Vger23

    Vger23 Captain Captain

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    No.

    No they would not be.
     
  15. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    Good point :p
     
  16. martok2112

    martok2112 Commodore Commodore

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    You have a very cool avatar gif! That's hilarious! :)

    Yeah, it was a real toss up for me, too, between Nemesis and First Contact...but for me, Nemesis wins in a few areas...

    1. Finally looked and felt like a big screen film when compared to the previous three TNG movies.

    2. A space battle that took up almost the entire last half of the film...shot for shot too...none of this "one or two exterior FX shots and the rest are just internals of the crew being thrown around shouting damage reports". It was a knock down, drag out space battle.

    3. The Enterprise rams the Scimitar. As implausible as this scene is, it is extremely well executed, and screams "big screen epic".

    4. The dune buggy chase. Thankfully, not being a fan of anything allows me to enjoy such things as this. And it was a nice action beat. I just don't get the hoopla that the fanboys get their undies in a twist over about this scene. "Picard would never do that!" "That is such a waste of character and movie time!" Question: How do the fans know what Picard would and would not do? The only people who truly know what Picard would or would not do are the writers and Patrick Stewart himself. :)

    This next stuff I write is not necessarily meant to disparage First Contact, for I certainly enjoyed it, but:

    I remember when Jonathan Frakes said: "First Contact is an all-out action movie." I would have to most vehemently disagree with that assessment. A two minute space battle at the beginning of the movie, and a few phaser rifle shots fired sporadically throughout do not make an "all-out action movie". It was a movie that had sparse action elements, but certainly not an all out action flick. It had about as much action as the most action packed TNG or TOS one hour episode...and when you spread that amount out over two hours, well....it's pretty thin. :)

    Just personal opinions only. :)
     
  17. tharpdevenport

    tharpdevenport Admiral Admiral

    What it would take for me to forgive the most terrible Trek film, Nemesis, would require making it an entirely different film.


    I could have forgiven First Contact[/i] if:
    [*]There was no Borg queen.
    [*]We had gotten a better ship than the ugly Enterprise E.
    [*]The Borg and Borg cube had looked more in line with TNG.
    [*]And better uniforms, not those ugly ones whcih later took over other Trek spin-off shows. Except Enterprise, of course.
    [*]The the complete re-writing of action-hero Picard; a complete betrayl of the character we had known for seven years and one film.

    These changes would have eliminated the Data/Borg queen love thing, the ugly Engineering room, the Borg queen/Lokutus flashbacks and possible companion suggestion, the ugly Bridge, and more.



    There's nothing I think that would have saved Insurrection; that was just a TV movie forced into theaters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  18. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    :wtf:
     
  19. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Oh you have the TNG crew, but it's with Romulans rather than the stupid Remans and Picard's so-called clone.
     
  20. EnriqueH

    EnriqueH Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've always flip flopped between Star Trek IV and III being my favorite.

    Now, don't get me wrong, if someone needed to be introduced to a Star Trek franchise, I would easily pick The Wrath of Khan since it best represents the film franchise.

    But for me, IV has been my favorite.

    I haven't seen a few of them in a while, so I may revisit this, but for now?

    I'd rank them as:

    IV (agree with the member who said that it would've been cool to have Horner do the music to complete the trilogy but I was fine with the music)

    II/III tied (stealing of the Enterprise in III is my single favorite sequence in any Trek film)

    STIND

    ST 2009

    TMP (despite its flaws)

    FC

    TUC (Good movie, but feels like a TV movie. Music is good, but would've DEFINITELY preferred Horner or Goldsmith being that this was the last TOS movie. Didn't like the claustrophobic Enterprise corridors at all.)

    Generations (heavily flawed film. Didn't like the death of Kirk. Picard going back to the time he was stuck between rocks made no sense. Why not go back far enough and nail Soran before he does anything bad? No Kirk/Spock/Bones scene before Kirk's death. Having said all that, the movie plays MUCH MUCH better than it should've have. Probably due to sincere performances and the pairing of Kirk and Picard.)

    TFF (embarassing sequel, but has its share of strong moments. In some ways, I like this better than VI because it didn't have the sad, "Yes, this is the last one." air hanging around it, but still could've been a lot better. Humor was forced. Clearly the success of IV lulled everyone into a false sense of security.)

    Nemesis---Certain important story elements felt redundant (death of a major character, another Data clone) or ineffective, (no matter how hard I try---and I have tried--- I just don't buy that Tom Hardy is Patrick Stewart's clone. The suspension of disbelief here just doesn't kick in.) I saw the movie twice in theaters, and haven't been able to muster a third viewing. The whole thing has this tired, by the numbers feel to it.

    Insurrection---I rank this lower than Nemesis because it remains the ONLY Trek film that I haven't seen more than once. I've tried watching it a second time on a few occasions and I just can't get into it. I used to be able to list the flaws back in the day, but 16 years after viewing it, it's a little harder for me to remember what I didn't like. I remember this vague feeling that the first half was good to decent, but that the movie takes a nosedive towards the end.