What would a half-Andorian, half-Vulcan child look like?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Sal'ira, Jun 23, 2010.

  1. Kira Nerys

    Kira Nerys Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Use your imagination at a guess,a cross between two species .
     
  2. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Let's go back to the question of chromosomes. How does the three-sexes reproduction work? The aforementioned idea about "XW", "XY", "XZ" can't work - it has to be about a combination of 3 chromosomes from 3 parents.
     
  3. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not even sure this would work but,

    The thaan's sperm has a single X chromosomes.
    The shen's egg has a double XX chromosomes.
    The zhen has, of course, no chromosomes.

    The chan's sperm (like the thaan), has a single chromosomes, however the chan possesses one of four different chromosomes, it is the chan alone that determine the gender of the future child. I have no idea how the four chromosomes would be shaped.
    .
     
  4. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think having NO sex chromosomes would work.

    Having a look at this will give you an idea of just how much information is carried on the sex chromosomes that has nothing to do with getting some.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-linked

    Also, the effects of having too many or too few sex chromosomes are very notable as well, and affect other areas than just the reproductive ones.
     
  5. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My bad, I meant the zhan contributes no chromosomes to the new little life. All the Andorian genders would have a full complement of chromosomes. Unlike sperm of Human males, the chans and the thaan only bring a single chromosome to the party.


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  6. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Can't we discuss temporal mechanics instead? ;)
     
  7. Python Trek

    Python Trek Commodore Commodore

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    ^ What, you mean inter-species mating that involves time travel? ;)
     
  8. Sal'ira

    Sal'ira Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I just checked up on this again and I found 86 replies and a strange turn of events. I thank those of you who answered the question. To the others...I am glad I helped jumpstart such an, uh, interesting series of conversations. Or is it just one, long, extended conversation? I'm not sure. I got lost at Page 3.
     
  9. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's perfectly normal around here for threads to mutate, adapt or evolve over time.

    I once started a thread concerning a piece of insignia on a spacesuit that over a dozen pages changed into a discussion on Great Britain's treaty obligations prior to the first world war. Go figure.
     
  10. Sal'ira

    Sal'ira Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I'm all for the evolution of conversations, but I'm just glad a few people answered the question. =) Did you ever get your answer?

    P.S. I laughed ever time someone snidely or sarcastically told me "an Andorian/Vulcan hybrid can't happen" because if humans can make babies with Vulcans and Klingons, Andorian/Vulcan can happen. I mean, come on people, it's Star Trek.
     
  11. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

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    That's right; it's Star Trek - not Masters of the Universe.

    Science fiction is supposed to be believable. Some people will point out we already have warp drive or the transporter (though neither are as flat-out impossible as a non-engineered Vulcan-Andorian hybrid) but that is like saying, "You shouldn't have a problem with your dog shitting on your bed because he already pissed on the rug."
     
  12. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hard science fiction I agree with you. However, I don't think Star Trek has ever pretended to be that even with the semi-scientific trappings it has at times.

    Personally, though, I look at science fiction, along with a number of other genres, as merely a subgenre of speculative fiction. It comes in many different flavors according to taste, but I don't see any opposition amongst them. At least, I don't see the reason for any such opposition though some act as though it's there.
     
  13. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

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    Star Trek is not 2001: A Space Odyssey but I think it works much better when it doesn't throw believability completely out the window. Every viewer is going to have a different tolerance level but the more the audience accepts, the further the writers will feel they can push it. Before you know it, you end up with magic spell books like in the latter half of the final season of DS9 and Janeway and Paris having baby lizards on Voyager.
     
  14. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why are Human hybrids more acceptable than Andorians ones?
     
  15. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The lizard bit was stupid because they tried to explain that one scientifically.

    Mysticism, however, I have no problem with because they never tried to pretend it WAS science--it remained mysticism. Whether such things or not is a different matter, but it didn't pretend to be anything else. I actually happen to like those kinds of blended works myself...Star Wars is definitely one, as is the Mageworlds series. (Heck, my Catacombs of Oralius subseries is very much about mystics in a futuristic world.)
     
  16. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

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    Oh, I do too. I love my own example: Masters of the Universe. I also like Star Wars (which I agree is a sci-fi/fantasy mix), The Transformers and The Fifth Element. I just don't like Star Trek to go in that direction. By its very concept, it can't be hard sci-fi but I think it works better as more serious sci-fi than pop sci-fi like Star Wars.
     
  17. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They are emphatically not. I forget if I said this earlier, but if they want to make some metaphorical point about interracial relationships and such, best they had first tackled the concrete and show more diversity in the human relationships. (In the future, homosexuality has long since been cured by neural neutralizer, I suppose.)

    And as someone upthread mentioned, the same effect of anomie can be attained by adoption or being raised by interspecies parents. Any actual genetic aspects, when played up, have always been stupid--"Faces" is the most obvious--and sometimes appear downright racist ("Faces" is again the most obvious).

    Thus being pointless, the concept should not exist. The rest of the magic Trek indulges in--warp flight, universal translators, arguably transporters--do have a great need to be there, but hybrids don't.
     
  18. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yet IN the Trekiverse--in that particular context--I think there's an argument to be made that the way the Progenitors programmed their children gave them a deep need FOR hybridization to be possible, and one that would be most pronounced in a civilization like the Federation, whose culture mirrors what the Progenitors had in mind and sees people past racial boundaries. These races are not only programmed to have similar basic builds...with few exceptions, humanoids seem to be programmed to have similar instinctive facial expressions and gestures, and even though there are certain modifications, similar motivations. They are expressly made by the Progenitors to have the potential to identify with, like, and even love each other. Given that, I think that they would feel deeply driven to find the means to be able to have children together when they feel drawn closely enough to each other.

    If we took out the Progenitors, and had only convergent evolution without any guidance, than I strongly doubt such attraction would exist, or that ANY kind of interbreeding would be possible. But, when we consider that the Trekiverse species were programmed for it to be possible, and that in a number of cases they are biologically of the same genus, it makes sense from a storytelling perspective.
     
  19. TiberiusMaximus

    TiberiusMaximus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Thank you for saying coherently what I somewhat tried to say earlier...and failed. :)

    When you think about it, it all boils down to suspension of disbelief. There are people out there who say "Space travel? Bah! Ridiculous!" People who don't enjoy sci-fi because it's unrealistic. There are people who are fine with space travel, but don't believe FTL or time travel is sensible.
    My point is, there are varying degrees of 'believable' depending on the story being told and the audience. The question is not "DO hybrids create interesting stories?" but "CAN hybrids create interesting stories?" The answer to the first is 'sometimes, but not always' and the second is 'yes.'
    It depends what story you're trying to tell. Spock is interesting because he is half human, B'Elanna Torres is interesting because she's half Klingon...etcetera, etcetera. I'm not saying everyone found those stories interesting, but they were interesting to some. Have hybrids been overused in Trek? Maybe, but then again, so have Klingons. But one can't decide that Klingons have never existed and there must be another scientific reason as to why we thought they did.

    By the way, if anyone happens to be looking for an example of a circular argument...not to point a finger at anyone in particular, but this thread is one:

    "What would an Andorian-Vulcan hybrid look like?"
    "That's impossible, two different humanoid species could never breed."
    "But they have on Trek."
    "But that doesn't make sense, they shouldn't have been able to."
    "But they have...therefore, in the Star Trek universe, it's possible. So what would an Andorian-Vulcan hybrid look like?"
    "That's impossible, two different species could never breed."
     
  20. StarryEyed

    StarryEyed Commodore Commodore

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    The Chase was a nice effort to try to justify the mess but it fails miserably. All humanoids are NOT of the same genus; evolution does not work that way. Even if it did, creatures with dramatically different physiology like Andorians and Vulcans could still not produce natural offspring. How many times does it have to be pointed out that Humans and Gorillas are almost genetically identical and still can cannot breed?
     

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