What was with the switching between uniforms in Generations?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by t_smitts, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. t_smitts

    t_smitts Captain Captain

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    I'm aware that they were planning some new uniforms for the movies, but backed out at the last minute (considering what the Playmates action figures look like, I'd call that a dodged bullet).

    But what was with the whole "some people in TNG uniforms, some people in DS9 uniforms" deal? Why didn't they just have them in one or the other?
     
  2. Surak of Vulcan

    Surak of Vulcan Ensign Red Shirt

    Personally, I never understood why they used the Deep Space Nine uniforms in Generations. It just doesn't make any sense at all. Every time we were shown non-DS9 personnel in DS9 prior to the First Contact/Dominion War uniform, they wore the TNG uniforms. Hell, Sisko changed uniforms in that Paradise Lost arc.

    My guess is that they still wanted some sort of 'uniform-recognition' with TNG.
     
  3. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    This was just another one of those annoying things about Generations.

    I wish they had the cast wear the TNG series uniforms in GEN and made the change to the grey uniforms in FC.
     
  4. Herkimer Jitty

    Herkimer Jitty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    People wear all different kinds of uniforms on real naval ships.

    Doesn't much bother me, knowing that.
     
  5. t_smitts

    t_smitts Captain Captain

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    True, but they do have uniforms for specific functions. An aviator, for instance, isn't likely to get in a plane and take off wearing his dress whites.

    It just struck me as rather arbitrary. Can you imagine Picard or Riker going to their closet first thing in the morning and saying to themselves "Hmmm, should I wear the red-front, or red shoulders today?"
     
  6. Vasquez Rocks

    Vasquez Rocks Commodore Commodore

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    This also happened during the third season of TNG. Officers can be seen wearing the "new" style uniform and the "old" one from seasons one and two. I think the excuse was they didn't have enough of the new uniforms yet for the background extras. I don't know what the in-universe explanation is though... Starfleet likes to slowly phase out the old uniforms??

    I guess the movie is consistent with the series in this respect.
     
  7. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Same here. IMO, the early DS9/VOY jumpsuits were new Starfleet fatigues.
     
  8. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    I gave up trying to make sense of it a long time ago. I much prefer my theory that until Generations/Voyager (and later First Contact) there was a period of several years where TNG uniforms = starship duty, DS9 uniforms = space station duty.

    :shrug:
     
  9. jayrath

    jayrath Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's because there was a very, very long line at the dryer, and -- worse -- there was a severe shortage of quarters.
     
  10. t_smitts

    t_smitts Captain Captain

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    A different set of uniforms for space station personnel is not implausible, but the personnel on starbases on TNG in "11001001", "The Measure of a Man", and "Starship Mine" all wore the same uniforms)
     
  11. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    I know. That's why I said "a period of several years" in my previous post. I'd go further to specify that those "several years" could be anywhere between TNG's 5th season all the way to First Contact/DS9's "Rapture."
     
  12. FreddyE

    FreddyE Captain Captain

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    Maybe instead of giving everyone a memo "New style uniform from now on", Starfleet told them "Okay, we are phasing the old uniform style out. You are allowed to choose the new or old style at your own discretion for now. All personal must change to the new uniforms by stardate xxxxx.xxxxx."
     
  13. The Green Mushroom

    The Green Mushroom Commander Red Shirt

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    That works for me. Voyager just happened to have taken off after that change. Or Janeway decided to go on a power trip and order everyone to change early.

    I remember hearing that after the proposed new uniforms were 86ed, they had to scramble. For some reason they didn't want the TNG uniforms in the movie or in Voyager. They settled on the DS9 uniforms but didn't have the budget for tailoring new ones for the TNG cast. Anyone who could fit into an existing DS9 uniform wore one for at least part of the movie. I believe they even went out and said:

    • Stewart and Frakes were able to fit into Brooks' or off the shelf uniforms
    • Spiner was able to fit into Meaney's or an off the shelf uniform.
    • Dorn could not fit into Meaney's costume and they had nothing in his size. The same was the case for Sirtis and McFadden.
     
  14. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    They should have just stuck with the TNG uniforms then, rather than a confusing mismash. I understand the navy uses different uniforms for different situations, but the way they were worn in Generations was too random for that kind of logic.

    It's funny that I'm posting about this again though. There was a thread in the VOY forum along similar lines earlier this week, and I posted in there, and now I'm here.

    It's such a small thing in the grand scheme of things, but it just bugs me. I suppose that's what the internet's for. :lol:
     
  15. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, no. When Quark organized the great darts game between O'Brien and the champion from the visiting starship in "Shakaar", the visitors also wore the DS9 style.

    http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x24/shakaar084.jpg

    Possibly that style is the casual look or "B style" for small starships and informal occasions, and Picard ran a tight ship during TNG but loosened up a bit for ST:GEN? Note that our heroes generally change into the DS9 style in the movie when engaging in "work" (although not always dirty physical work) or having their "A style" uniforms soiled somehow.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  16. Warp Coil

    Warp Coil Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My guess is this: the proposed new Starfleet uniform design that was planned for GEN was also going to make its way over to VOY. At the 11th hour, the decision was made to scrap the new uniform designs. As a result, the decision was made to just carry over the DS9 style uniforms to VOY. So I guess they wanted the TNG crew to use the DS9 style uniforms, too. Unfortunately, because of the last-minute costuming change, they didn't have time and/or money to construct new DS9 uniforms for each member of the TNG cast along with enough DS9 uniforms for all of the extras (they probably had to share them with DS9 and supplies may have been limited). Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner, considered the "stars" of the TNG films, managed to get the new costumes. They managed to fit Frakes into one of Avery Brooks' costumes and LeVar Burton into one of Colm Meaney's. They may not have had jumpsuits that fit properly for Dorn, McFadden and Sirtis. Or perhaps they just didn't want to wear the new style. So they ended up using both uniform designs.
     
  17. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    What've read/heard over the years conflicts with this. Stewart and Spiner were given uniforms specifically made for them; Frakes wore Brooks' and Burton wore Meaney's. Everyone else wore their TNG uniforms.

    In fact, you can easily see that Stewart's is a custom-made, new uniform in the film - he has a unique "belt buckle" thing going on, which was never done before. I originally thought it might just be that his top is a jacket (the way we later saw on Voyager) but it clearly is just a strap of fabric around his waste.

    As opposed to Data's, Riker's, and La Forge's.
     
  18. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    Seeing as how the Voyager/Early DS9 uniform was just a reworking of the TNG cadet uniform, it doesn't bug me much
    [​IMG]

    Do you have any idea how many types of uniforms they've had? I sure as hell don't. It's all over the place
     
  19. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Solely in terms of production, it still makes no sense to me.

    They had a re-design as seen on the Playmates figures but scrapped it at the last minute. Okay.

    Then they scramble to get DS9 versions (why?) and even then there aren't enough for everyone and they have to borrow from other actors and some cast have to keep their TNG versions. Why bother?

    If they can't outfit their cast and there aren't enough to go around, why bother? Why was it so crucial that TNG cast change uniforms, even under impractical production strains, even inconsistently on-screen?

    If they were gonna keep some cast in their TNG versions anyway, then just keep everyone in TNG versions. Why would it be a problem? Who would complain or be bothered?

    Did they think fans would complain that the crew is wearing the same uniform from the series IN A MOVIE?
     
  20. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    Perhaps it was the concern that everything on the series - from the bridge to the uniforms - had been designed for television screens and not cinema screens and thus might show up on cinema screens in a negative light?

    Much has been made of how this was the official reason for the redesign of the bridge and the director of photography's lighting of the film. Perhaps the uniform switch (which admittedly in the end turned out to be rather futile) was merely to avoid having people notice coffee stains and fabric runs on the big screen?