What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!!

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by TheMasterOfOrion, May 13, 2013.

  1. TheMasterOfOrion

    TheMasterOfOrion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've wondered why brands like Stargate, Battlestar, Firefly (....maybe since Fox had little faith in the Serenity idea Joss) and wondered why Trek flopped on the tv screen.

    It's too space based, there is too much tech, too much HAL 2001, too much about robots, and spaceships and stuff

    The successful stuff today is being grounded with very strong mystical characters and fantasy elements
    Potter's magic school, Vampires, a space god with a magic hammer who starts to love a science girl

    I find it sad to read Trek has been losing ground, sad to read the next Green Arrow or next Sword of Shannara or next Guardians of the Galaxy is getting a tv show
    While Trek gets nothing :klingon:
    I was a big critic of changing the Trek very but now see it needed to be done, it needed a push in the direction of popular youth culture novels, the comic books, the new series like Defiance. JJ Abrams, Roberto, Alex had to bring back that character magic and fantasy element that was in the original tv show
    :alienblush:
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    Thor is an alien with tech indistinguishable from magic. Green Arrow is a highly skilled crime fighter that uses tech. Guardians of the Galaxy are superheroes in space.

    Trek spent almost 30 straight years on TV. It needed a rest.

    Space Sci-Fi in general is more expensive to produce and thus needs higher rates to draw in expensive advertising to support those costs. It has nothing to do with "too much this" or "too much that". Quality, entertaining stories and good production win through.
     
  3. Mysterion

    Mysterion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    If you want fantasy, fine. Have at the Tolkien and such all you want to. Some of us prefer our science fiction to be more sciency.
     
  4. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    TNG, DSN and VOY weren't really flops. Sure by the time ENT came around the audiance had fallen to a level unable to support this but :-

    In the case of ENT bear in mind how many seasons of Trek had been on. Many consider TNG and DSN to be the best of the modern era Trek shows. That isn't to say VOY and ENT are bad shows, but for example if a portion of your fan base is referring to VOY as TNG-lite you have a problem. Shows are compared to their predesscor and if the fans think it isn't as good they might leave. Or to put it more simply it wasn't quality TV anymore.

    TV audiances can diminish over time

    Scehduling conflicts
     
  5. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    Franchises that produced multiple shows that ran for years and collectively produced hundreds of episodes are flops? C'mon now.
     
  6. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    Fantasy shows like Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead are more popular these days with audiences. Sci Fi is a dead genre on television at the moment.
     
  7. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    The word "flop" gets used around here way too easily. What is a Flop. The only show you listed that I would call a "flop" is Firefly and that was mismanaged from the beginning by Fox. Star Trek was never a flop, and neither were the Stargates (3 series) and Star Trek (almost 20 years of being on tv continuously).

    I don't mind fantasy, but man do I miss the space based TV show. My favorite TV shows ever are in that genre (Farscape, TNG, Babylon 5) and to not have one since BSG is a shame.
     
  8. TheMasterOfOrion

    TheMasterOfOrion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    I think going back to the magic and mythology in the original Trek is important
    Dr Who a scifi show which is still grounded in British style comedy and magic and mythological elements was pulling figure of 5.4 million, a foreign show, actors and producers building a show in a smaller country and it pulls millions
    Stargate Atlantis, Battlestar had very low ratings, sometimes in the thousands. The mood of these shows was also kinda dull and depressing, not exactly quality entertaining after you read a newspaper about the sucky economy or the never ending wars in asscrackistan
    Lost, Walking Dead, Quantum Leap, Xfiles, Game of Thrones, Vampire diaries etc these fantasy shows are pulling in millions and millions in the Nielsen Ratings and had a massive percentage in household tv shares
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  9. TheMasterOfOrion

    TheMasterOfOrion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    and yes I agree Firefly was a great show but the market is different now. people don't want this, they want sexy fantasy elements, comedy, escapism etc
    Smurfs in space yes, Jabba & his pet slave Leia
    but space stations and tech, no

    Enterprise flopped not because of suspect writing but the whole genre itself was in danger of becoming stale
     
  10. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    Remember back to the early-mid 1980's when TV was virtually devoid of Sci-Fi based TV shows. So we are in a lull again, but I'm fairly confident Sci-FI will come around again.
     
  11. SG-17

    SG-17 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    Why are you sad that Green Arrow has a show? More successful cape properties the better.
     
  12. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    In another thread someone just pointed out a record 12 new sci-fi shows on the fall broadcast network schedule next year. I think you need to increase what you consider sci-fi or admit that you're only talking about space opera when you say there is a lull.
     
  13. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    TNG wasn't close to being a flop. In first run it was the highest rated show on TV for the male 18-49 demographic, and the highest-rated first-run syndicated drama. That's why the other Trek spin-offs got made. The ratings steadily declined after TNG, but that took many years and another 18 seasons' worth of Trek.
     
  14. McDuff

    McDuff Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    Sci-fi space shows like Star Trek, TNG, DS9, Voyager, Babylon 5, Andromeda, Stargate were extremely popular, as well as the new Star Trek movies, and they will make a come back to the TV screen I am sure of it.

    I'm a big fan of space Sci-fi shows and can't wait to watch new ones. For me they represent the ultimate escapism. Especially series which bring back the sense of adventure and exploration the other series had in the past. Exploring new planets and adventures every weeks. With good writing the sky's the limit for such series.

    Syfy's Infinity project is the most interesting project on the space Sci-fi front.

    IMO, it's the creativity and the writing quality of such series which will be important. Not what type it is. All types can be popular and the diversity of TV shows or Sci-fi shows is most welcome. A little bit of everything is what I like to watch and I really some good Space Sci-fi TV series. Series involving Space, Starships, alien planets and civilizations, future earth and alien politics, exploration, action, drama,etc.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2013
  15. Chensams

    Chensams Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    7 seasons of TNG, 7 seasons of DS9, and 7 seasons of VOY are far from flops. Followed by 4 seasons of ENT, Trek was on continuously for 18 years. Off the top of my head, only Law & Order, the Simpsons, and Gunsmoke were on TV longer than that. Seemed pretty successful to me.
     
  16. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    All in the Family has gotta be close (Started in 1971), it spun off Maude (Which spun off Good Times) and The Jeffersons (ended in 1985) which spun off at least 1 short lived Florence show) as well as spinning off/retooling to Archie Bunker's Place and a Gloria Spin off or two.

    ETA: OK, checking more thoroughly, I guess it only last from 1971 (All in the Family) to 1985 (The Jeffersons). All the other spinoffs seem to have all finished before The Jeffersons ended. Still 15 years, so, kinda close
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2013
  17. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    I read this thread and the first thing I think of is Star Wars. (And then I'm reminded that Episode I gave us a "tech" answer to the mystical Force.)
     
  18. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    Not to mention The Tonight Show, Letterman's current show, SNL, daytime soap operas and game shows, or Dr. Who's original run if you're counting British series....
     
  19. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    No, it gave a biological answer, rather than a technological one. But I understand your point - some people were happier with no explanation at all. There had to be a biological component, though, just to explain the inheritance of strength in the force.

    At any rate, "space-based scifi" isn't doing anything wrong. Vampires and zombies and fantasies have been popular lately; in twenty years, space opera may be the top of the heap on TV and in films again.
     
  20. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What space based scifi is doing wrong? No Fantasy and magic drama!

    Space Opera is doing pretty damn well in films right now.