Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Infern0, Jun 24, 2013.
Fully agreed with those sentiments. Diane Duane should've been invited to write it.
All the TNG films except for one have a huge glaring flaw that will distract me. First Contact contradicts previous Borg logic and makes them less threatening just so we could have Picard act like a maniac wielding a phaser. Insurrection is pretty boring. I find it more boring than The Motion Picture (even though I really like TMP) because at least with TMP, there was something interesting happening when the movie didn't slow down. I also find it a little uncomfortable knowing that Picard didn't even try to save Ru'afo and instead say a dumb one-liner. Nemesis is hilarious. I mean I can't even get upset with it because it makes me laugh. It is so stupid and while watching it, I inadvertently scratch my head at certain points. Shinzon is such a non-threatening and funny villain that there is no way I can ever watch the movie and go "this is intriguing." I watch it as a comedy. The absolute worst of the bunch is Generations. Generations straight up makes me bad. I mean, not in the same way that Abrams films make me want to throw a chair but Generations is pretty awful. It's just scene after scene of sheer stupidity. I hate knowing that The Undiscovered Country had such an amazing ending and a fitting way to put to rest the original series that every time I watch it, I leave with a great feeling. Generations screwed that up. I mean not even just with the original series but even with TNG. I guess they were too nervous to make their own stand alone movie so they played it safe. From the nitpicky moments like how they changed Data's emotion chip to the really stupid moments like Kirk's infamous burial beneath a couple rocks just frustrates me as a whole. It's not like Nemesis where I can just go "alright, this is stupid but at least I can have fun making fun of it." Every time I think about it, I get a headache thinking of all these individual moments that they dropped the ball on. If I had to rate them, however from worst to "best" if you can really call it the "best..."
2. First Contact
Insurrection tied with Generations for me, the former just reeked of cost cutting throughout, and was just a below average TNG episode stretched over 2 hours. It had it's moments, but these were mainly humour based, whilst welcome I didn't pay to watch a comedy.
Generations was just an all-round mess plot-wise. but at least had a couple of decent sequances (enterprise B and the E crash) and felt more like a big screen adventure (at least for 1994) but the plot holes as described earlier in this thread killed the film for me, at least compared to my favourite Treks. There was just no need for Kirk to be in it, as the above post says, the end of 6 was a perfect send off for the crew, they should have just made a standalone TNG film
Generations mainly for two things:-
1. Managing to make two legendary captains meeting rather dull.
2. Killing off Kirk in such an offhanded way.
Then there's the emotion chip, the Enterprise being beaten by an old Bird of Prey, the TV like scripting etc.
Glad to see Nemesis and Insurrection in first and second places in the poll.
For all of Generations' flaws, it sure looks pretty and the plot doesn't annoy me much like Insurrection's plot does.
I don't need a TNG movie to advance the timeline in a major way, but for a movie, there do need to be major stakes for the crew. The only thing at stake for our crew in "Insurrection" were Picard's feelings -- at least until late in the film.
I picked "Insurrection," but "Nemesis" could have been worse -- I've only seen the movie once on DVD and don't really remember much about it, other than it was garbage. "Generations" I feel had the most potential, but the entire story collapses when the character setups (Kirk desires to be out of retirement and back in the action; Picard begins to long for a life he forfeited) don't match the payoffs (nah, what Kirk really wants is a quiet retirement; Picard wants to get back in the action). Absolutely criminal writing by Moore and Braga.
It's hard to pick the worst of four stinkeroos.
I absolutely loved this entire post as Nemesis is my least favorite movie. I'm sitting at my computer laughing my ass off reading this. Thank you very much.
My main reason for having Nemesis as my least favorite is that Data dies. Data was the man! B4 really isn't a good substitute. But I do admit that Picard driving the land rover thing was hilarious.
Now I absolutely love Insurrection, it's my hands down favorite movie.
Agree, Destiny should have been the plot for First Contact.
I like Insurrection the least, but really enjoy all of them. Nemesis is my favorite.
Nemesis is my favorite and Insurrection is the worst. It is a toss up with Generations and First Contact.
Glad to see not everyone hates Nemesis on here, I like it at least as much as First Contact, the battle at the end where Picard rams the Enterprise into the Scimitar is one of my favourite scenes in all 12 films
I'll have to go with Nemesis as it is one of 2 Trek films (Trek 5 being the other) than I didn't see in the movie theaters and only watched one time.
To be fair though, it was a pretty hard choice. My favorite Trek by far is TNG and the movies were all pretty flawed except First Contact. I'm in the process of rewatching the entire series with my 13 year old daughter who has fallen in love with TNG. We are almost done with season 6 and I'm approaching the movies with trepidation. They just really missed the target on them but we'll see how the stand up after years of not watching them.
Even though I picked Nemesis, my opinion may change in rewatching it. I heard rumors that Data dies at the end and never got around to seeing it in the theaters. When I finally watched it, I remember thinking at the end "you know, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be." As much as I want Data to still be around, hinting that B4 was basically Data resurrected made Data's death pretty pointless.
Insurrection was just an extended episode but enjoyable. Nothing earth shattering or ground breaking.
Generations ticked me off by the pointless death of Kirk and I HATED, HATED what they did with the emotion chip. So Data is just parts and chips. Just install the chip and whammo! He has emotions. How much better would the story have been if he started developing emotions on his own, you know, greater than the sum of his parts? How much more "Star Trek" would that have been. :GRR:
That's a tough one, I'd say...all of them!
They all play out like the person or persons who wrote them both didn't watch the show and felt that the people who would pay to see the movies where a bunch of idiots!
They actually introduced the emotion chip in the series, I can't remember what episode it was but it was a fiasco with Lore and the chip basically turned Data into Lore. I think the point of the chip in Generations was to show how they had worked on the chip to make it better and not turn Data evil.
I never had a problem with the emotion chip, at the time I thought it was a neat development for the character, I can see now though how it would have probably been better 'Trek' to have him maybe develop emotions on his own
Brothers early in season four.
that was when it was introduced, but I think the reference to the chip "basically turning Data into Lore" must be a reference to "descent," no?
I mean, in "Brothers" Data didn't even get the chip, and it was in "descent" where he went evil.
It killed Kirk for no reason, killed Picard's brother and nephew for no reason, and killed the Enterprise-D for no reason.
They also got really lousy deaths. The Enterprise was destroyed by a Klingon hoopty, and was a rehash from Yesterday's Enterprise (coolant leak, Geordi reacting - the episode did it much better too). Kirk's death needs no further comment. Picard's family deaths was only done to make Picard sad. So much for Rene looking up to the stars at the end of Family. It's hard to believe Moore and Braga could write such crap. The studio demanded a "passing of the torch", but including Kirk into the movie only made it worse.
First Contact is the closest thing to a decent movie. Insurrection is pointless fluff with a stupid message, and Nemesis is a decent idea but everyone involved with the movie was bored.
1: Data's sped shed cousin.
2: Picard's lame ass clone played by an actor who even with his head shaved bore -10 resemblance to Patrick Stewart.
3: The totally unnecessary and overly graphic "rape" of Troi.
4: The micro transporter which broke one of Trek's fundamental rules about tech.
5: Data's stupid pointless needless death.
6: B Pointless and the sudden singing.
This was what my wife and I got treated to when we forced our way through a snowstorm to see this fucking piece of shit. Why did we do that? Because Patrick Stewart made a big plea for fans to support the movie by going to see it opening weekend. So we went. Because our Captain asked us to. And we got treated to a cinematic abortion.
And how were we thanked for our loyalty? By getting to hear and read about Stewart carrying on about how it was the fans fault for not supporting the movie.
No Patrick the fault was that your movie sucked. The scriptwriter should be beaten for claiming to be a Star Trek fan, and whoever thought that a hack director who normally does cinematography was a good choice needs thumped. And unlike in times past when it would have taken weeks for word to get out thanks to the advent of The World Wide Web fans were able to warn other fans in a matter of hours rather than days. If they'd had twitter and facebook back then I don't think it would have done any business to speak of.
I am still more than a little bitter to this day and frankly it's taken quite a bit of time for me to forgive Stewart and Spiner who's egos mostly drove the plot.
All of these movies really sucked. Unfortunately it took me a little time to let go of my fanboyism and realize that. Then I again I think all the movies suck to some degree or another. The Abrams movies sucked too. The Original Series movies were pretty good but still had a lot of suckage. Sucks sucks sucks. Everything sucks.
I think it's easier for Star Trek not to suck when it's a TV show.
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