What If It All Went Nu?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Bry_Sinclair, Oct 5, 2012.

  1. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Location:
    California
    Sorry, it was Vulcan, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this movie. :lol:

    I'll give Mccoy being promoted, because it can happen with medical students out of the academy.

    Kirk and the others going from mid cadet to captain--which basically a Colonel, is a little too much to believe.

    Spock starts off emotional right off the bat, because he's involved in a pretty intense relationship with Uhura--and no explanation why, other than they're in a relationship.

    I like it when Vulcan stay Vulcans and be logical. That's part of their mystique. Every once in a while, they can be emotional due to some crazy situation, but usually they're without emotion.

    That's what made Spock interesting.

    Given the idea that Vulcans are supposed to have no emotion, how many times do we see Tpal almost naked in a sexually situation, Tuvok nearly going crazy, and Vulcans doing illogical things..

    With the car thing, TOS's Kirk was totally unfamiliar with automobiles--Trek frequently tried to show that vehicles didn't use wheels anymore.

    The rude thing--the way TNG and TOS saw it, humans talk their way out of conflicts, fighting is for savage people, and humans live in a near Utopian society.

    I certainly agree that 24th century people can be just as rude as anyone, but they went on record as clearly distinguishing their behavior from 20th century humans for example.

    IMO, Nu Trek is clearly a different Trek continuity from the other series. That's how they'll probably have to format it.
     
  2. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    If you want it
    Kirk's the only one. Uhura graduated as a Lt. ( As did Kirk) and remains one. Sulu is a Lieutenant, but I don't think he was in the same class as Kirk. Chekov is an Ensign and might be part of a different class, as well. Scott is Lt. Commander and already on active duty as is Spock.

    IIRC, Kirk was about to or already had graduated at the time of Nero's attack. Remember, he told Pike he'd get through the Academy in three years. The Kobayashi Maru test would seem to be for final year or command school cadets based on TWOK. So I don't think he was a "mid cadet".

    Vulcans don't lack emotions they control them. Under various types of stress that control can and does slip. When Spock was younger ( The Cage, WNMHGB, parts of TOS season 1) his control wasn't as pronounced. ST09 happens around the time of the Cage in the Prime Universe.

    Vulcans get interesting when their control is compromised and their logic is challenged. Spock's best episodes are about that.

    How often did we see ground vehicles in Trek? Starships and spacestations don't really use them, so its unlikely they would show up. Shuttles and transporters are used to get from the surface to space, so who can say if everyday ground vehicles have wheels or not? Picard's dune buggy in NEM did, so they can't be unheard of.

    Kirk's familiar.

    But not with the operation of an early 20th Century automobile. There might be a difference between a 1920s flivver and a 1960s Corvette. And the car was an antique, not a "modern" vehicle. People have been to to collect and keep things from previous centuries.

    You need to stop conflating TOS with TNG. Kirk got into a fight in most episodes.(Usually saving the peace and love speech for the final act) He was often rude to people he didn't like. (bureaucrats mostly) Spock and McCoy were always sniping at each other.

    Of course its a different continuity, that was the point.
     
  3. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Oxford, PA
    Agreed. The whole "Utopian" society/everybody is more evolved and civilized business is more of a TNG thing. Things were a bit rougher around the edges back on TOS's final frontier . . . .
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Or as I once put it when watching a TOS episode with friends, "This is back when they were still -boldly- going..."
     
  5. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    For most of ST XI, Kirk was a Lieutenant. This is confirmed by the transporter readout screen when they're trying to beam him and Sulu away from the drill.

    So it would seem that if the hearing hadn't been interrupted, Kirk would have been formally graduated as a Lieutenant - just like he did in TOS.

    In any case, Kirk didn't go from Cadet to Captain - he went from Lieutenant to Captain. Still a big jump, but he only skipped two grades (Lt. Cmdr. and Commander), so it's not THAT big a deal.
     
  6. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Location:
    California
    From what I've gathered, Kirk got suspended as a cadet, in his third year. He wasn't even allowed to board the enterprise with the others when it left.

    That either means he had no commission at the time he boarded the Enterprise, it was a writers error, or he actually was listed as a lieutenant even though he was a cadet under academic suspension..

    With cars an everything, it will depends on interpretation, and whoever is writing the story.

    It's always going to go back and forth.

    Up until Nemesis, we don't see any wheeled vehicles, as if to give the message that they were obsolete. Everything was now anti gravity or hovercraft.

    Harry Kim, from Picard's time, doesn't recognize a truck, although Picard in Nemesis suddenly breaks out the jeep.

    Before that, even in environments similar to the one where Picard used the jeep, they never used wheeled vehicles.

    IMO, it was just a fun piece to add in the story, although it seemed awkward and out of place to some of us.

    It's not that Kirk doesn't know what a car is, but that automobiles and wheeled vehicles were (considered) obsolete by his time.

    In TVH, Kirk himself walked right in front of a fast oncoming cab, as if he didn't understand the concept of oncoming cars and traffic :lol:
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  7. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    If you want it
    His third year would have been his last year. He made it through the academy at an accelerated pace. IIRC, they have a three years later title at the start of the "present day" sequence to show that Kirk has made it through the academy in three years just as he promised Pike.

    Kirk being a cadet with the rank of Lieutenant is like Saavik, who in TWOK, was a cadet with the rank of Lieutenant. It's not a coincidence they were both taking the Kobayashi Maru.

    Why would being under academic suspension preclude him from being a Lieutenant? I would think the only way for him to lose his rank would be if the hearing found him guilty.

    The car Kirk drove was an antique, not a "modern" vehicle. Just because automobiles are obsolete doesn't mean people don't still own them or know about them. Kirk would know something about cars because his Step-father/Uncle owned one. Of course the Kirk in ST09 has led a different life than the one in TOS. It's possible that TOS Kirk is less familar with wheeled vehicles than ST09 Kirk.

    Kim lived 100 years after Kirk and may not have known anyone who owned an antique truck or studied history. I know what a chariot and stagecoach are.

    Even when they land in shuttles they mostly wind up hoofing it. For some reason no forms of ground transportation are standard issue for landing parties. :shrug:


    That it was, but not because it was a wheeled vehicle.

    So, he's not totally unfamiliar with them after all.

    I've seen people who live with autos everyday do the same.
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    I'm sure many missed it, but at Starfleet Academy we saw this drive by:
    [​IMG]
    Although indended to be a futuristic car from 2258, it's actually from the here and now: www.aptera.com
     
  9. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    If you want it
    Then there's this:

    [​IMG]

    ;)
     
  10. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    :lol: Okay, that's cooler.
     
  11. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 1999
    Location:
    Tatoinne
    DS9 also makes the assumption that the Federation is a paradise but does not assume that Starfleet can act like they live in paradise when they are outside it, defending it. That's the big break with TNG.

    As for TOS, my take on it is that the 23rd C was less evolved overall. Capitalism or at least the notion of competition for limited resources must have still existed because there was reference to people earning paychecks and Kirk was downright frantic to get the mining operation going again on the Horta world. Plus you had space traders like Harry Mudd and Cyrano Jones always angling to make a buck.

    He probably expected it to detect him and veer around him. Within our own lifetimes, this might become the norm. Cars will be safer once they start driving themselves. ;)
     
  12. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    Actually, it's from the "was" - Aptera is no more, IIRC. :(
     
  13. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Location:
    The Plains of Cydonia
    If it all went Nu, I'd turn in my fan badge and call it quits.