What if Garrett Wang had left Voyager instead of Jennifer Lien?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Ro_Laren, Dec 6, 2013.

  1. Ro_Laren

    Ro_Laren Commodore Commodore

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    I’m sure that most of you already know that originally the powers that be wanted to get rid of Garrett Wang instead of Jennifer Lien. He was saved by the fact that in 1997 he was voted as one of the "50 Most Beautiful People in the World” by People magazine. What do you think Voyager would have been like if the powers that be would have gotten rid of the Harry Kim character instead of Kes? Do you think they would have still brought in a female Seven of Nine or do you think they would have brought in a male version of Seven of Nine instead? Of course the other options would have been to: 1) leave the main cast the way it was (minus Harry), 2) add a new cast member by finding a new character to join the Voyager crew, 3) promote one of the already known / seen extras to join the main cast, or 4) have an previously unknown Voyager crewman promoted to become a series regular a la Paolo and Nikki from Season 3 of Lost.
     
  2. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Probably still would have brought in Seven of Nine.

    Just, there might have been more interesting character episodes in the last four seasons and more exploration of the telepathy arc.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ro might mean that the show seems a little top heavy with blond actresses if Jenifer had stayed.

    But, really, Harry was unfired between Scorpions after Jeri was cast.

    The plan was to be top heavy with blond actresses.
     
  4. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If Wang had left Voyager, all hell might have (IMHO) broken loose on-line and off-line; the Asian-American community might have reacted badly at the news that he was being let go (although there were no blogs then.) I think that a way should have also been found to keep Kes/Lien and also have Seven Of Nine be on board Voyager as well, with Kes being Voyager's resident counselor, and with her helping Seven regain her humanity (as well as becoming her lover-think about it; Star Trek gets a queer relationship officially instead of unofficially years later with Star Trek Phase 2!):vulcan:
     
  5. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No one should have been kicked out, even if they had to add Seven.

    I agree with Shaka Zulu's statement that Kes should have been the counselor on Voyager but disagree with the Seven/Kes lesbian suggestion. Kes had had a relationship with Neelix and a romance with Zahir and was obviously straight or heterosexual and Seven was the same. Besides that, the whole "gay character in Star Trek" is getting a bit obsessive. If they want such characters, then go ahead and create a new series with such characters but leave the already established characters as they are.
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why would anyone go to see a counselor who was what, 4 years old?
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You're not thinking about it in the right direction.

    Every one wants a councillor who is going to be dead of natural causes in 3 years or less.
     
  8. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hmm what would the TV execs and target show demographic want: a large-breasted blonde in a catsuit, or a man in some loose-fitting civvies? Let me think...

    Its a shame they got rid of Kes, who had a far more interesting set up than Kim ever did. But they kinda shot themselves in the foot after the EMH was allowed to roam free. He should've been restrained to sickbay (maybe with holo-emitters in engineering and the bridge for emergencies) making Kes the on-scene medic--making her role a little better defined.

    As for a counsellor, wasn't that supposed to be more Neelix's role as "morale officer"?
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A morale officer makes you happy no matter how much you want to kill yourself on the inside.

    Whores and hooch basically.

    (Why does everything come back to M*A*S*H*? I haven't seen an episode in ten years!)
     
  10. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I preferred Kim to Kes, underdeveloped as he was. I'm glad they didn't.
     
  11. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't see why anyone had to leave the show.
    Practically speaking, maybe problems with the actor or budget concerns would lead to dismissal.

    But creatively? DS9 successfully handled dozens of characters in the show. But VOY can't handle nine or ten?

    And yeah, I know some say VOY really only featured three or four characters anyway, never mind ten characters.
     
  12. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    DS9 and Voyager were worlds apart.

    DS9 was done properly.
     
  13. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Commodore Commodore

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    As far as Kim's storyline -- no significant loss -- did the Tom/Kimfriendship even develop in the latter seasons?

    If they kept7 AND Kes..it would have been an interesting parallel if they SLOWLY de-borgified 7....7 would become more and more a healthy young woman, while Kes could be aged every season...so by the end, they'd either have to make a miracle cure, or die of old age. (And THAT would have been interesting -- have outsiders related to Kes & a crew member in different ways.

    And to solve the Doctor problem -- he would have to be a pure Hologram, that could NOT touch objects,so Kes would have to literally be his hands & feet...which could make for some nice interaction between the 2...another reversal where the Doctor's humanity grows while Kes' slips away.
     
  14. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    If Garrett Wang had been released from the show instead of Jennifer Lien, two things would have happened:

    1) We would have missed out on so many clarinet solos, tears, and his one good scene as an actor.

    2) Lynx would have had much less to bitch and moan about over the intervening years, thereby robbing me of numerous occasions to make fun of him.

    All told, I'm sorry Lien was let go, but I'm also sorry Wang wasn't instead.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You see, I've managed to make at least one person happy! Maybe I'm not such a bad Lynx after all! ;)
     
  16. Ro_Laren

    Ro_Laren Commodore Commodore

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    It wasn't cause both actresses are blond, but because that means there would have been 4 main cast members that were female. Star Trek has always had more male main cast members than female. Voyager was already breaking the trend by having 3 main characters that were female... imagine if there were 4! Then it really would have been a "ship of the Valkyries" like Q said in the episode Death Wish!

    Also, was Garrett really fired between seasons? I never heard that before!
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's a fine line between prefired and completely fired.

    He knew it was coming.

    Everyone did.

    8472 gave him space herpes for a reason.
     
  18. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We would have been spared more crappy Garrett Wang "acting" and been given a potentially fantastic character dynamic between Kes and Seven.
     
  19. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought it would have been a little funny if Kim had just disappeared into Voyager, working the night shift, and mentioned now and then but never seen. I'm completely puzzled as to why tptb kep Kim and never did anything interesting with him.
    I agree with what's been said, that there was room for both, but I wouldn't have missed Kim if he left.
    Kes as counselor wouldn't have had opprotunities, and Kes as a major player in Seven's recovery would've been interesting. I'd have wanted them to have a close friendship, to become like sisters, both protective of each other in different ways.
    If they had fallen in love, I wouldn't have hated that, at all, but that's not really my agenda.
    Is there a Seven vs Kes rivalry with fans? I feel like there could be, but I've never really seen it. I'm a massive Kes fan, but I'm also a big Seven fan, and I never resented Seven for coming on, just tptb for getting rid of Kes.
    I wouldn't have had an issue with the gender balance at all, there were still 3 or 4 lead males left, and it's not like there aren't plenty of tv shows with large male casts and one token female. You'd think the largely hetero male fan base would've liked having more pretty women on the show, and they and everyone else should enjoy the show for the interesting characters. The sexism is annoying.
     
  20. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think a four year old counselor would be perfect. At least then she would know she has no idea what she's talking about. ;)

    I mean, if you've got a neurochemically based psychiatric issue, you what the experienced professional. But if you are just having a difficult time emotionally and need somebody to help you work out your problems, you want an adaptive thinker, and Kes is the very definition of an adaptive thinker.

    One of the problems with Kim, besides Wang's lack of effort in all episodes not named Timeless, is that all of his established relationships with other characters had him taking the role of straight man. The normal guy who accentuates the other character's wackiness. Even with Tuvok! How do you make that interesting?