What Happens After Death

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Into Darkness, Sep 2, 2013.

  1. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Who is John Galt?
    Glitches in the Matrix, like ghosts, aliens, vampires and werewolves... :D
     
  2. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since the existence of an afterlife cannot be proved or disproved scientifically, then you're free to believe whatever you want. I'd like to think that after death, humans evolve into a higher form of consciousness or being, although that's not necessarily supported by my Christian beliefs.
     
  3. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why?
     
  4. VXX

    VXX Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    you die, money is spent on some sort of ritual with a meal, then survivors fight over your estate.
     
  5. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Who is John Galt?
    Sure it is - particularly if you were a Gnostic Christian.
     
  6. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why what? If you're referring to the Judeo-Christian belief in an afterlife, then what I personally like to believe is not consistent with religious teachings about heaven or hell.

    Perhaps, but since I'm not a gnostic Christian and don't know anything about their belief system, I can't really comment.
     
  7. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry, should have asked more specifically.

    What I mean was, why do you believe what you believe and is that really a belief at all. The way you phrased it is a bit off. You said you "like to believe"
    I am not criticizing your convictions, you are free to believe in any kind of afterlife if you want to, I just don't see how you came to that conclusion... hence why?

    You said, you believe in a personal version of an afterlife. What is that version beyond a vague sense of "something"?
    And what convinced you that there is an afterlife?
    Or is it rather a form of strong wishful thinking and not really a conviction at all?
     
  8. rhubarbodendron

    rhubarbodendron Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    that's pretty much a perfect sum up. :techman:
     
  9. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My beliefs are influenced heavily by my Christian upbringing. I was raised a Catholic and later became a member of a congregationalist group. I'm now a non-denominational Christian with a bit of "New Age" spirituality (also having read some literature on death and dying). My mind is open to the possibility of an afterlife. It would be like believing in the existence of lifeforms elsewhere in the universe despite the lack of scientific evidence to support it. Unfortunately, there are things that cannot be quantified by science. That is where one's faith comes into picture.
     
  10. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think that comparison is valid. We know of one example of life in the universe: us.

    I couldn't possibly estimate how many other cases of life in the universe are, but I know it's possible because because it has happened once and is demonstrable.
    We can't quantify any life beyond our own planet yet, true, but it's still a reasonable assumption that it probably is out there somewhere.
    I just wouldn't make any further assumptions about it, not about it's rarity, nature or age.

    Now when we come to indications of an afterlife, how many indications do we have that it is even possible when every new discovery about the nature of the universe and life says otherwise?

    Faith to me is an excuse to believe something beyond good reason.

    Pondering the idea of an afterlife is a valid thought exercise, but what makes you believe that it DOES exist?
    What is your reason for doing so?


    Another question is, is there a life before life and what was it like?
     
  11. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'll say it again: faith makes me believe what I believe. Why do Muslims believe in Allah? Why did pagans worship animals and trees and celestial objects? One might say you can't know that God exists. But faith is a phenomenon that doesn't happen overnight. It's often ingrained in a person's being. What a person believes in usually takes years or decades of learning about religious doctrines and a lifetime of tradition and practices. The essence of faith becomes a part of a society's culture.

    But enough about my faith. All I can say is, a lifetime of experiences and teachings has led me to believe what I believe in, and I derive spiritual fulfillment from that.

    I'd like to hear about your beliefs.
     
  12. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think my beliefs are boring to you. They don't include the supernatural.
     
  13. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Don't fret. Everyone is entitled to his or her own beliefs, no matter how absurd or illogical they may be. :)
     
  14. Jax

    Jax Admiral Admiral

    You die, get over it.
     
  15. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That too. Perhaps a better question to ask people would be:

    Who would go to your funeral? And what would everyone say about you?
     
  16. rhubarbodendron

    rhubarbodendron Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Timelord, I concur with you until this point:
    I rather think that this is not a matter of cause and effect but both is the very same: in order to believe in something that can't be proved one has to have faith.


    Though being an atheist myself I can see the emotional and moral advantages religious believes may have. People who believe in a deity that to some extent supervises their lives tend to be more relaxed in critical situations. They have what I would like to call "an emotional safety belt". Whatever happens to them, they have some kind of authority they can apply to, complain to, hope for or ask for help. While this may not have an immediate effect on the situation, it nevertheless helps them to cope with it.
    The atheist must face all the problems of life alone. That makes us stronger but it does indubitably take a toll on our nerves, emotions and endurance.

    I believe that this craving for assistance, the need to have a friend or a powerful ally, is what first caused people to invent religions. Not having to be alone is propably one of mankind's deepest desires and needs.


    Another need is to be accepted the way we are. This goes for our believes (or lack of) as well. If we expect others to accept and respect our views on life, we must give them the same acceptance and respect.
    As far as religion is concerned, we all have to agree upon the fact that we disagree. And frankly, it'd be a rather boring world if everyone believed the same.
     
  17. Jax

    Jax Admiral Admiral

    Religious people have no moral advantage at all, infact if they actually paid attention to what they really believe and the source material it comes from they probably have less moral advantage over atheists.
     
  18. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sure, though that doesn't mean we have to tiptoe around every bullshit believe people preach.
    Of course we want to be respected for our believes and we definitely should respect the right of everyone to believe what he wants.
    But then if I for some reason spout out total nonsense which I honestly believe myself, you better call me out on it and show me why I am wrong!
    That's why I dig discussions like this.
    Calling bullshit on something doesn't mean I disrespect someone. I just think he can do better.
    And by that I don't mean adopt my point of view, but be more critical about his own.
     
  19. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, even now, we are leaving marks in the timeline. The posts and letters we write, the causes we push for. The world records. This is as close to non-tech immortality as we ever get. Knowing that I did something, even if no one was able to see it--is now part of the timeline--for whatever that is worth...a good life is its own reward.

    I did like that commerical with the old man.

    "Grandpa--where do we go when we die?"

    "The ground."
     
  20. Gryffindorian

    Gryffindorian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    See, I'm not sure I understand the logic of your argument. To me, it sounds as if a person of faith has to justify his beliefs to a non-believer such as yourself.

    It's like saying, "Hey, I speak English. Why do you speak Spanish?" To which I would answer, "Why NOT? I have no problem with your speaking English or whatever language you prefer. I don't expect you to speak my language. So what's the problem? " Faith is believing in the invisible and intangible. Would you deprive a little child of a fantasy of Santa Claus? Faith, or lack thereof, is part of one's identity. I'm not really an expert on religion, nor do I pretend to be. If you're curious about one's religious beliefs, I would recommend having a conversation with a priest, an imam, or a rabbi. Sadly, I don't have all the answers.