What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by SignGuyHPW, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Was their break-up handled as smoothly as it could've been? No, it was not. Did/does it work for what it was? Yes.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Kes: Neelix, are you dealing Drugs?

    Neelix: Yes Sweeting, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

    Kes: Can I try some?

    Neelix: No, of course not!

    Kes: I will not be treated like a child! Give me some gear, or you're flicked!

    ...

    Neelix got inbetween Kes and the monkey on her back, and THAT's why they broke up... Worst threesome ever?

    Wait?

    Isn't this the episode where Neelix says "I'm an ignorant useless son of a bitch and no one needs me, I might as well space myself for all the worth I am to this crew... No body loves me, I suck."

    So the original plan, was that Neelix works super hard to make sure that Janeway doesn't maroon him on a passing moon only for Kes to exile him to the no sex club.

    That's a way better ending to that episode.
     
  3. mickmike

    mickmike Commander Red Shirt

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    Count me in as a person who likes Neelix. I felt that he actually started growing as a character once Kes broke up with him. I think their relationship brought out the worst in him in that he was possessive, jealous and some what controlling. I think Neelix had massive abandonment issues stemming from losing his entire family and this came out in shitty ways in his relationship with Kes.

    Sure Neelix could be annoying with his overt cheerfulness but i think behind all that was a guy who doubted his worth and was broken emotionally. I'm glad that was explored during the annual serious neelix episodes.
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kes specifically stated that Ocampa mate for life. I like that a third party terminated the relationship, something she never would have done herself... but after the fact Kes did realize that was for the best and there was so much more for her out there, when it came time to reconcile or not. I do think that should've gotten a scene at some point however.
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Of course they mate for life, they don't even make it to the seven year itch before they drop dead.

    Interesting point though.. Kes is totally outside of her social norm and she has no role models to follow for such.
     
  6. Garren

    Garren Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I found this topic searching for answers regarding this subject! Glad I'm not the only one who was caught off guard by this. I truly thought the scene in Warlords didn't count because Kes was not herself. Reading the thread, I really wish the writers had done more with this. I'm pretty sad that Kes and Neelix didn't stay together. I enjoyed them being together because they were an imperfect couple who were in love.
     
  7. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The breakup was handled badly by the writers.

    Kes breaks up with Neelix in "Warlord" when she's possessed by an alien entity. Then there are no more explanations why, not even after Neelix actually does his best to free her from the alien intruder.

    As I see it, the Kes-neelix relationship started to crumble in season 1 ("Twisted", which technically is a season 1 episode) when Neelix's jealousy and over-protection of Kes is becoming more and more annoying. It continues in season 2 where they both are drifting apart (Kes is occupied with her job in sickbay, her studies and her new social life on board Voyager while Neelix is getting more and more into his different roles as Morale Officer, journalist and chef).

    What we should have had was a break-up during 2-3 episodes in season 2, starting with "Parturition" where it should have been made clear why they broke up, like them drifting apart for reasons I've mentioned above. Not the unconvincing break-up they showed us in "Warlord", an otherwise very good episode.

    Unfortunately, this was just another example that the writers couldn't handle relationships or feelings between characters. Both Voyager and TNG suffered from that.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She wouldn't put out.

    He may have been loyal, but once the leash was slipped, this kitchenrat had two years worth of celibacy to murder as quickly as possibly.

    Kes. "Neelix, I didn't mean it!"

    Neelix. "Oh. Wow, sorry. You really should have got back to me about this little faster, I've already moved on. I've rrrrrreally moved on, to a lot a places, if you know what I mean... Oh? you don't know what I mean do you?'
     
  9. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Location? What is this?
    Or, Guy, perhaps Kes gave Neelix the glitter ;) ;) and it pissed him off.
     
  10. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Very little had any effect going forward in Voyager. After the end of the episode, everything was sorted out, shiny and new by the start of the next one...
     
  11. Drone

    Drone Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Even though I don't hold their relationship in disdain as do many, I found the breakup as (barely) enacted eminiently sensible. Kes ultimately proved to be Tieran's superior in her mental fortitude, determination and of course, psionic abilities. However, he was pretty perceptive about people's feelings and deep seated motivations that forged their behavior. Naturally he had to get Neelix out of the way so as to undetectedly proceed with his operational planning, presumably in a non-terminal fashion. I find it noteworthy that while the Dear John conversation was decisive, Tieran's manipulation of his host seemed to evince touches of regret and conscience at what he was doing as, cognizant of the depth of feelings on both sides in the relationship, he was almost sorry to have to give it the old kibosh.

    Nevertheless, I think he was only articulating a sense that was building in Kes, probably since Cold Fire anyway, giving voice to a framework of inchoate aspirations and desires that Kes still was not in a position to yet do on her own accord. Her mental abilities that were likely, if perhaps unseen, continuing to be teased out by Tuvok, the exposure to sensuality by Tanis, that while fleeting and disorienting, had to have made a strong impression, as well as maybe a hope to play a more prominent role on Voyager as an individual actor.

    The intensity and gravitas of what she was made to endure and the ferocity of her fight for freedom was such that when liberated, Kes didn't even experience an aha moment as regards Neelix, but rather just soberly understood and accepted the verity of what Tieran had said. As well as gaining a much keener appreciation of the fraility and tenuous quality of mortality than she had before, I think she underwent a clear eyed and spontaneous elevation in her understanding and appreciation of the meaning and significance of an interpersonal relationship.

    An abrupt break? Certainly, but reasonable in how Kes's story was evolving and fitted well, I think, to the construct of her personality.