What happened with Kes and Neelix?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by SignGuyHPW, Oct 12, 2013.

  1. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    It was time for a smoke break. I don't know if she was in that particular commercial, but early in her career, Mary Tyler Moore was a dancing cigarette pack.
     
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What year was that commercial from?
     
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think it gave the date on YouTube. But I think the announcer was Dennis James (or maybe George Fenniman), and I think Moore was doing the dancing cigarettes during the mid-1950s.

    Regarding the feline Neelix, apparently Barclay learned the name when he was working on the Pathfinder project.
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes but didn't we see that he had a cat named Neelix before he made contact with Voyager? Or am I muddled?
     
  5. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I dunno, I don't have any collections of TNG or VOY, just isolated episodes from Fan Collectives.

    Here's more about the dancing cigarettes, that ad may be earlier than I thought according to the readers' comments, which seem to confirm one of the girls is Moore.

    http://www.shorpy.com/node/3597
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was thinking that if Voyager was made in the 50s, that all the aliens and half the crew would be smoking... There would be ash trays all over the bridge flying this way and that into the side of the bridge crews skulls... Which is when I wondered if Roddenberry had something against smoking since the only person I recall, not that I can remeber most of everything I once paid attention to, smoking ever in Star Trek was Iman in the Undiscovered Country.
     
  7. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Roddenberry smoked, as did Shatner and others. I think there's an early memo where Roddenberry decided the Enterprise would be no smoking to make it seem in the future.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They could have just as easily gone the other way.

    A two inch radius on the base of the butt protruding forth for a foot at least.

    (Metric is not sexy.)

    I saw a joint that big once, kids were bowing and chanting at it.
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    John St. Talbot smoked in V. Rather wonderfully, too.
     
  10. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Or they could have done like in The Fifth Element, where the size of the filter and the tobacco are reversed.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That would have been hilarious if the Enterprise bridge was seen through a cloud of smoke like the offices in Mad Men.
     
  12. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    ENT used smoke a lot. One of the bloopers (from THe Expanse I think) has Bakula hitting his mark and cracking up because the smoke is so thick he can barely see, adlibbing "That's right men, next year fire extinguishers for everybody."
     
  13. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This thread has degenerated rather quickly.

    I happen to be a fan of both Neelix and Kes and enjoyed their relationship, which was actually handled rather well in spite of the discrepancies created by airing episodes like Elogium and Twisted completely out of order, and am also of the opinion that, although it would've been nice to have seen the 'closure' scene that was filmed for them in Fair Trade, Warlord works perfectly fine as the 'breaking point' for their relationship.
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Do we have the script for the closure scene?
     
  15. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I know it's available in print in the Star Trek Voyager Companion.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Whoa, why have I not know this!

    Someone post the good bits!
     
  17. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I totally disagree. In "Warlord" she was being controlled by an alien, so that doesn't count. Then based on dialogue in subsequent episodes we're supposed to believe they broke up for real but I guess we just didn't see it, or maybe what we saw was real. Sorry, that's not how I took it at all. Perhaps one could analyze it and show how it makes sense on paper, but that's no substitute for how it made me feel actually watching it unfold. It sucked. And where where was the big emotional breakdown from Neelix when Kes finally left for good in "The Gift?" Neelix was very selfish and child-like with his feelings and territorial over Kes, and to ignore all of that when Kes actually left was to ignore some potential growth for his character. There could have been some wonderfully emotional scenes with him there. In this case, they blew it.
     
  18. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kes was under Tieran's influence, but, at the point she broke up with Neelix, she wasn't entirely being controlled by him, and the things she said while being influenced by him weren't just made up.

    The Fair Trade 'closure scene' would've been a good coda to what happened in Warlord, but, from a writing standpoint, what happens in that episode (Warlord) is able to stand on its own and function as a decent 'breaking point' for their relationship.
     
  19. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh, well when you put it that way...
     
  20. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    FWIW, it didn't make any sense to me either. I figured Kes broke up with Neelix in "Warlord" to keep him out of the way for what was going to happen. Then the next episode happens and they're still broken-up. Major WTFage.

    Kids, don't have your characters break up in the same episode where one of them is going to be possessed.