What happened to Jennifer Lien?

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Infern0, Jan 22, 2013.

  1. Stoo

    Stoo Captain Premium Member

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    Paris never struck me as experienced or grown up enough to be the captain's right-hand man. Although I guess you are short on suitable candidates.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The events in Resolutions took between 2 and 8 months depending on how liberal you want to examine the information. The story actually started after Janeway and her XO had been in Stasis for a month...

    Almost a year.

    9 months is so almost a year.

    Long enough to make a human baby.

    Tom Paris was Voyager's First Officer the whole time under the tutelage of Captain Tuvok.

    Question: Did Tom get bumped up to Lieutenant Commander during Resolutions?

    He should have been.
     
  3. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You're right to a point and that sort of tension is actually in part why I feel like bumping Tuvok and Chakotay off the ship and letting Paris be the XO (especially keeping him at Full LT to earn LT Cmdr) would have been especially great.

    Chakotay himself said it best when he said Paris was something of Janeway's reclamation project, well, one of three (7 of 9 was easily another and one could argue Toress was also, after a fashion).

    Being a little less mature assuming the role would have given a lot of room to grow and a little room to fall.

    For him to fall the way he did in the series, they had to invent an entire scenario presented in and taking affect in a single episode (in "30 Days"). If he was the defacto XO, a position he had great potential for but really wasn't QUITE ready for, that does line up with a whole bunch of "filling shoes" scenerios to give him a chance to slip and grow.

    Heck, I almost hate to say it, but in doing it that way, Paris being able to lament about Tuvok and Chakotay NOT being around may have actually ultimately gave us more reasons for us to care about the characters as legacy characters then riding them to the end of the series.

    Besides, I think we could have REALLY sent both Chakotay and Tuvok out in a REAL blaze of glory in a way that would have been a real tear jerker compared to the "Oh, no more Kes?...." especially in the Borg Resolution --- there were all kinds of good potential places to do it.

    Besides, I look at the series as a whole think about how many more regulars we could have enriched the series with if we opened up the salary from three cast positions. We could have seen a lot more of Carey, Wildman, Vorik and we really could have and should have expanded the roster of regulars by a lot. With as small as Voyager was and the fact we weren't rotating crew EVER, I still say we should have had so many regulars that it felt like we met the whole ship.

    Oooo --- its fun thinking about the what ifs

    /edit

    ............. and Guy has a point --- as usual.
     
  4. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    we were actually talking about Beltran bashing the writers, not Lien

    as far as "speaking the truth" They're all entitled to their opinion, but while they'r ON the show and receiving a paycheck for it, I think it's incredibly poor taste to bash the show

    would you go on tv and say horrible things about the company you work for and expect no consequenses at work for it?

    if Beltran had issues with the writing there are channels he could have gone through, like the other actors did
     
  5. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    it ends up being an argument of which came first the chicken or the egg. Probably at first Beltran wasn't happy that he wasn't getting enough lines or somthing even though in the first season he had a few of his own episodes, and durring an interview he said something unpolite which pissed off the writers, who then wrote worse for him, which made him say even worse things, which made them write even worse for him and so on and so on.

    and yes he did say that he even stopped reading scripts, that's why he's always looking at a pad or a console, he had his lines taped to them. Which I think as an actor even if you're not particularly happy with your character or something, that's incredibly unprofesisonal and disrespectful to the rest of the actors
     
  6. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    I just think it's incredibly poor taste to be bashing the show while you're making money off of it. He can have his own feelings about the show, maybe he didn't like it, but while he was working and making money on the show he shouldn't have been trashing it

    even at conventions, he was trashing it and I don't think that's fair either since they get paid a lot of money to appear at the cons. And personally if he has signed my photo with Brannon Braga is a wanker, I would have demanded another autograph, they're too expensive for that kind of nonsense
     
  7. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Captain Captain

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    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Resolutions_%28episode%29

    Not sure how you get that time, but memory alpha says the opening scene is 17 days in stasis, act 2 is 24 days after the initial 17, and the entire episode takes place over 3-4 months.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2013
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    How long does it take that tomato tree to grow from a sapling into a fruit baring bush?

    Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmonths happened in the last 3 minutes of the show.

    but I said 2 to 8 months, depending on how you looked at it, then added another month for stasis, which turned out, thank you, to be only 17 days, but Tuvok would have taken over as Captain before they went into stasis depending on how bad what was wrong with them.

    Unless the federation was engineering super seeds...

    http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/tomato/msg0714540432087.html

    It takes 75 to 90 days for a tomato plant to fully mature.

    too sick to work + 17 day stasis + almost the entire entire episode + 3 months to grow tomatoes = How long Tom was a Lt Commander.
     
  9. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Interesting idea, I always like a good "what if" scenario.

    Though Paris just never struck me as XO material--at least not in S3. Get rid of Chakotay and promote Tuvok to XO and make him more of an advisor and confidant of Janeway (as he started off in S1 but was later forgotten about). I've ready the first couple of VOY relaunch books and just don't buy Kim as Security Chief, I always think he'd get beaten up more than Archer (if that was possible). I could have seen him dropped from the cast as well. The PTB could then have promoted Ayala up to fill the duties of either Ops or Security. And of course Neelix would be killed off in a horrific manner :evil:
     
  10. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Depends on the variety. There's an heirloom variety of tomatoes that was bred for short growing seasons that gives you tomatoes in 55 days, even when it's too cold for tomatoes.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    From the source...

    So no, not Federation Engineered Superseeds.
     
  12. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe he's not a quick study. When I did plays, it would usually take a month for me to get the script out of my hand, so I could never do a new show every week.

    Or maybe he was taking a cue from Marlon Brando, who was notorious for not memorizing his lines. He'd leave index cards hidden all around a set with his lines on them, believing that allowed a fresher delivery than memorization.
     
  13. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    I don't think that was the case with him, he specifically said he didn't give a damn and stopped reading the scripts

    and in all fairness, if he can't learn lines then perhaps television, where they learn a new script every week isn't right for him
     
  14. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A couple of months (60 days) would be the same timeframe as subarctic tomatoes.

    Which, BTW, are naturally-bred heirlooms, not genetically engineered. :p
     
  15. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, but Lien must have coughed in the wrong tune on a Friday morning, otherwise the sensitive writers wouldn't have lost their abilities or their interest so quickly when it comes to writing for the character Kes.

    As for Beltran, I admire him for having the guts to stand up and tell the truth about the sloppy writing.

    For years, he had seen and experienced how his character was shoved more and more in the background and how his suggestions for the character were totally ignored. Finally he lost his temper, something that most of us would do.

    So what did he have to lose? Nothing! It wouldn't have changed anything to continue to bow for the masters. They had already decided to place Seven and The Doctor at Janeway's side as the main characters and the rest as moving images in the background (except for the one they've already fired).

    Besides that, lousy employers and lousy companies needs a smack on the head in public. Maybe they will learn to treat their employees better after that.
     
  16. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    One thing that's great about Jersey, is our heirloom tomatoes, yum!
     
  17. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Jersey white corn... *sigh*
     
  18. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Regarding Jennifer. I doubt it had anything to do with her. The problem was that they'd written Kes into a box. She was nice & sweet & compassionate. She had great mental powers that she was just learning to tap.

    "Nice & sweet & compassionate" means no drama.

    Great mental powers has been done hundreds of times on Star Trek, dating back to TOS.

    As I said before, that's the creative process. Some things work, some things don't. Not every artistic project is a success.

    Regarding Beltran. Just because Person X says that the writers suck or he's the most talented member of the band does not make it true.
     
  19. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    The only difference between Beltran and some of us would be the money involved. Lots of people complain about their employer, some even quit. But if Beltran had quit, he stood to lose a few hundred thousand dollars a year possibly, as well as a suit for breach of contract. If they had fired him instead, mission accomplished and he could draw unemployment. The only time I tried to draw unemployment, I was turned down. They said I didn't look for work hard enough when there was a foot of snow on the ground and I had no car.
     
  20. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, I've gone home and called my best friend and whinged about my job. I've come close to quitting. I did quit a job when I just didn't fit in with the management style at a place.

    What I have never done and will never do is trash the place in public. Unless the employer is doing something illegal, that is simply unprofessional--in any field.

    ETA: And no, Beltran could not have drawn unemployment. Actors are private contractors. They don't get unemployment when a gig ends.
     

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