What exactly is the Neutral Zone?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Shat Happens, Aug 22, 2014.

  1. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    Am trying to think in 3D.

    The only way there is NOT a route to a volume in space (let's call this "Federation Territory") from another volume (say it's the Romulan's) is if the second voluma is completely enclosed by a lage volume (defined as "the neutral zone")

    Also, Spock made a presentation in "Balance of Terror" (but not in 3D) when in TOS was established a "Klingon Neutral Zone"? The first time I ever heard that was in The Wrath of Khan, and in that movie it was a ovoid shape:

    [​IMG]

    And not ver big, for it seems the Enterprise can get ti its center in less than a minute. Seemingly not enough to contain an empire.
     
  2. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not following what the question is. The Neutral Zone appears to be a volume of space between the Federation and Romulan territories which separates the places either party claims sovereignty over, and which they've agreed as a general rule not to enter. There appears to be a similar zone between Federation and Klingon space.

    You can get from a region on a two-dimensional surface into another region, unless either region's wholly enclosed by an impassable boundary too, by the way.
     
  3. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I just call it a no-fly region that serves as a buffer between the Federation and whoever (be it the Klingons or the Romulans). It's not infinite, so it looks different on a tactical plot depending on how you approach it, IMO.
     
  4. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    I mean the buffer would have to be infinite, otherwise a SPACE ship could simply go over or under it, I think. Or by the sides. OR it'd have to completey enclose the Romulans.

    Now the Klingon NZ makes less sense I think. In ST VI Kirk says he's afraid of when the Neutral Zone no more exists.
     
  5. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Basically this


    From the top down yeah its a buffer around Romulan space. Although in 3D space I suppose yes it would cover the above and below of their territory.
     
  6. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Not really. All it needs to be is a no-fly area between two territories that would otherwise touch. A separation of borders.
    I don't see why. Sherman's Planet aside, the Federation was on no more friendly terms with the Klingons than they were with the Romulans in Kirk's day, and a Neutral Zone between Federation and Klingon territories probably cut down the number of skirmishes between them after TOS.
    He probably didn't like the idea of Klingon ships being able to freely enter Federation space one day.
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The galactic disc only so thick, then you come to the energy barrier enclosing our galaxy.


    :)
     
  8. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The neutral zone is just an area between Federation, Klingon and Romulan space where nobody is allowed to militarize and neither side is allowed to enter without the other's permission.
     
  9. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While there was some suspicion about the fact he was doing so, apparently Cyrano Jones was able to legally enter and leave Klingon space.

    :)
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Also, Klingon ships have been encountered in space that decidedly is not part of the Klingon Empire, in basically every episode after the introductory "Errand of Mercy". Yet Kirk never greeted his opponents with "Your presence here is proof* that you have violated the Neutral Zone at least once, meaning we're at war and I'm authorized to blow you to pieces without parley"...

    So either mere sailing through the NZ, even with armed warships, is not yet technically casus belli, or then the NZ doesn't completely encapsulate either the UFP or the KE.

    In early TNG, crossing the Romulan NZ is a grievous offense (which both sides commit with some regularity, but still). By the time of DS9 and VOY, though, Romulan ships are mentioned as sailing outside Romulan space and encountering non-Romulan ships, so the above two choices again apply.

    Timo Saloniemi

    * See Bolzano's Theorem
     
  11. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Crossing into the Romulan Neutral Zone is meant to be an act of war, never mind going into the others actual terriotory.
    Yet to be fair the Romulans go into UFP space pretty much every episode of TNG they were in. Basically the Federation come off as slightly pussies for letting them get away with it so often.

    Hell, in VOY: Message in a Bottle they come in Fed space, hijack the USS Prometheus, kill the entire crew, and use it to attack other Starfleet ships. And nothing really comes of it, the attitude being "oh those pesky Romulans." :lol:
     
  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    And, a couple of months later, the Federation and Romulans ally themselves together to fight the Dominion. I wonder how that worked out if the Prometheus was mentioned.

    Federation Diplomat: "There is the matter of the incident with the USS Prometheus a few months ago."
    Romulan Diplomat: "Yes, we expect the hijackers you arrested returned to us immediately and the matter forgotten."
    Federation Diplomat: "Word's already been sent to their prison. They're being transported here as we speak."
    Romulan Diplomat: "I trust they weren't mistreated."
    Federation Diplomat: "Federation prisons are noted for their luxury."
     
  13. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Same happened in TOS.

    Kirk went in the Romulan Neutral Zone at least 3 times, yet there was no war. Some pot shots but nothing too serious (as far as we know).

    My idea is that in the Neutral Zone non-aligned planets ships were free to traverse it if they wanted to take the risk. But the ships of Federation planets and Klingon-aligned planets and Romulan planets were supposed to stay in their own territory (except maybe on diplomatic missions).
     
  14. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, we don't know when the Klingon Neutral Zone was established. It didn't get mentioned until Wrath of Khan, and even then it was more or less an error (it was supposed to be the Romulan Neutral Zone) so it could've been after TOS the TV series ended.
     
  15. Nebusj

    Nebusj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But it's not called the Klingon Neutral Zone. It's just called the Neutral Zone, and given the reference to the Kobayashi Maru being out of ``Gamma Hydra'' that's evidently the Romulan Neutral Zone being mentioned.

    Having a pack of Klingons attacking from space where Romulans might be expected is surely part of the inherent unfairness of the Kobayashi Maru scenario: the Romulans would have fair reason to be aggressive towards a Federation ship there, but the Klingons? It would be like having China shoot down a United States spy plane over Siberia.
     
  16. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Saavik refer to it simply as "the neutral zone" with no mention of either the Romulans or the Klingons. And as you say it didn't seem to be very large, perhaps it enclosed a single star system, which no outside military was allowed to enter (but a civilian ship could), it was here that the Klingons set their trap.

    Neutral zones might be numerous throughout Federation space, a quarantined or pre-technology planet might lay inside one.

    Or a advanced civilization that wants no powerful Starfleet ships in their system and who established a treaty with the Federation not to enter. The Empire might not be a party to the treaty.

    It perhaps was the "Gamma Hydra (section ten) Neutral Zone."

    :)
     
  17. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Which would still be valid for one between Federation and Klingon space.

    I agree with the idea of a Klingon Neutral Zone established after TOS' TV run. Maybe it could even have been an extension of the Organian Peace Treaty or something that was initially brokered on Nimbus III.
     
  18. Green Shirt

    Green Shirt Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not pussies, they're just acting like the "Enlightened Utopians" they claim to be. :p
     
  19. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, the Romulans let the Feds get away with violating the Neutral Zone, stealing a cloaking device and capturing one of their Ranking Commanders without any repercussions.
     
  20. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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