What does everyone know about Spock Prime? [probably spoilers]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by The Wormhole, May 19, 2013.

  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    In Trek XI Spock Prime was somewhat insistent on keeping his secret. For reasons of necessity he revealed himself to Kirk and by extension Scotty and Keenser also learn who he is. Although Prime insists Quinto Spock can't learn of him, the two do meet in the end. A deleted scene implies Spock Prime has no intention of telling Sarek who he is. Now in STID, Quinto Spock wanting to know about Khan contacts Spock Prime and the two of them openly discuss the Prime universe and Spock Prime is publically called "Spock" in front of the Enterprise's bridge crew.

    I'm guessing this means Spock Prime is open to everyone about who he is and where he's from. In fact, the comics show that the Enterprise's senior staff at least know it and discuss it openly.

    Is this logical? Given that Spock Prime has apparentally taken a solemn vow not to reveal future events, doesn't letting the fact he's from an alternate future just invite people to ask? Couldn't he have just said he's cousin Selek or something and just left his true identity a secret for Kirk, Quinto Spock, Scotty and Keenser?
     
  2. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime?

    I think knowing it's an alternate timeline, as the bridge crew knows in '09 before the introduction of "Old Spock," it's just natural to let them know. But I don't like them consulting him before the ship's computers. It feels cheap and that's why I don't think Leonard Nimoy should be in this movie.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  3. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime?

    I'm surprised Admiral Marcus wasn't waterboarding him for information. ;)
     
  4. Joerib

    Joerib Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime?

    I am curious if this has been discussed, does Spock Prime get deja vu (spelled right?) when Nu Spock does anything??
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime?

    If Nimoy was younger the next movie might have been about him being abducted by nefarious types and NuSpock and Kirk having to Search for Spock.
     
  6. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: What does everyone know about Spock Prime?

    Yeah, you spelled it right.

    Since the timeline is so different from Spock Prime's, it's unlikely. Heck, nuSpock is with Uhura and Spock Prime isn't batting an eyelid. Not even a nictating one.
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Whoa, never thought of that but.. doesn't that tell us that at some point Prime Spock had the hots for Uhura and now that he sees NuSpock with her it seems a logical choice?
     
  8. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    The point of divergence is so close to NuSpock's birth that we can't say anything about Spock Prime's feelings for Uhura Prime. NuSpock has had a different life from Spock Prime.
     
  9. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not necessarily.

    While everyone can point to a few things between them (Uhura Prime's song in Charlie X), she also kissed Kirk Prime and seemed to have some understanding with Scotty.

    NuSpock is NOT Spock Prime. NuSpock lost his mother much younger than Spock Prime, lost his planet (which did not happen to Spock Prime), was told by Spock Prime to live his own life (which Spock Prime realized decades later), and met nuUhura at a different/much earlier point in his life--and her life (evidently, since she was still a cadet instead of an established lieutenant).

    It's implied--and pretty much stated in this movie--that Spock Prime is not telling nuSpock all that much, recognizing that the timelines are different so choices will be different. I mean, Spock Prime met Khan while already friends with Kirk, what, almost 10 years later in their lives. And re-met Khan MUCH later in their lives, after his friendship with Kirk was long-established by decades, decades more than nuKirk has been alive.

    I am SO enjoying discussing these characters, and some of the relationship between the timelines.
     
  10. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

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    I was surprised that no one did historical research using the ship's computers. I think this was particularly important for this film where there was a character about whom we had two conflicting accounts of his history and his motivations.
     
  11. Joby

    Joby Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I myself have wondered why Spock Prime doesn't just tell everyone he's cousin Selek. I know Vulcan's are not one to lie, (generally), but Spock Prime is keen at exaggerating and obscuring the truth for the good of all.
     
  12. gerbil

    gerbil Captain Captain

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    "Space Seed" made it pretty clear that records from that era were sketchy at best.
     
  13. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Still Space Seed does feature a picture of Khan from the 1990s. Presumably such a picture must still be in the database, or did Nero's arrival erase photographs from the 1990s?
     
  14. Silanda

    Silanda Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    It was probably for the best that they didn't. Khan's original background has already been contradicted by real world events, so by not exploring his background the filmmakers have sidestepped some thorny continuity issues. Considering the new fans who will see this movie, I really don't see how they could have explained this 1990's origin without completely derailing the pacing by having to explain how it happened without anyone noticing.

    Also, the lack of research made the character somewhat more ambiguous. Something that wasn't really taken advantage of unfortunately.
     
  15. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The writers chose to do the Spock Prime phone call instead. Good choice.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In TOS getting information out of a computer was a cool sci fi thing. Now everyone does it and watching it is like watching electricity.
     
  17. tmosler

    tmosler Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    actually kahn and admiral Marcus already told kirk all about who kahn was. so spock was contacting spock prime just to ask how dangerous khan was and if he could be trusted.
     
  18. AlxxlA

    AlxxlA Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    It's possible that Section 31 suppressed information about Khan once Marcus defrosted and recruited him, to prevent anyone recognizing him or researching his weaknesses.
     
  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They kept people from recognizing him by bleaching, dying and body modding him out the wazoo. I think his bone structure is similar to Montalban's though, it's definitely not a reach.
     
  20. Kpnuts

    Kpnuts Commodore Commodore

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    Absolutely, the right choice.