What do you dislike about The Dark Knight?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by T'Baio, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. crouteru

    crouteru Captain Captain

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    Probably that The Joker steals the show from Batman. Begins was all about Bruce Wayne and Batman, but I felt that wasn't really the focus in The Dark Knight. Still a superb film, but I just prefer Begins.
     
  2. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I wasn't a fan of the Tumbler, but I loved the Bat-pod. Unlike all those generic "batcycles" we've seen in toy stores over the years, this was actually a cool, badass design they came up with.

    Otherwise, my main complaints are:

    -- I just didn't buy Harvey Dent's turn to the dark side. BTAS came up with a much better justification by showing that he already had a multiple-personality disorder to begin with, and all it took was a little push for Two-Face to take over.

    But no matter how tragic Rachel's death was, I just couldn't see the noble and righteous Harvey of this movie becoming the cold, vengeful killer we see so quickly-- even to the point of threatening to kill a little kid at the end! I mean, come on now.

    -- Way too many forced and contrived situations for my taste. For instance I didn't buy that a city like Gotham-- which is supposed to be the crime capital of the world-- would be in a complete state of panic because of a few assassinations and the destruction of an empty hospital. Or that there would be a rush of people hunting down that dweeby lawyer guy. And the whole ferry sequence was the most contrived of all.

    I like the ideas Nolan was trying to get across in the movie, but the execution just didn't convince me nearly as well as it could have.
     
  3. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    The only thing I hate is Bale's Batman voice. It's just way too damn intense and it doesn't need to be. Sure he probably needs to "disguise" his voice so he's not identified but I'm sure there's a middle ground between his natural voice and sounding like a constipated Clint Eastwood with a severe cold.

    And there's just times it's not called for. When he's trying to intimidate Joker or the mob boss he drops off the fire-escape, sure maybe some intensity is called for. When he's just talking to Gordon and Dent on the roof or in a crime scene? Maybe not so much for the intensity there, Bats.

    And the final line (one of) to Joker with the "These people just showed you..." bit is just to intense a bit gentler with his vocie would've gotten his point across just as well if not better. Yeah. That's my biggest problem.

    I'm still not a big fan of The Tumbler but at least it wasn't featured a whole lot in this movie and, a plus, it was destroyed so maybe we'll get a more Batmobile-like Batmobile in the next one and, yeah, the Batpod was kind of OK but dumb in how it was intergrated into a vechile designed to build bridges and the part when Bats turns it around on the wall is dumb-looking.

    You'll recall fromt he first movie that the cape has properties in it that allows it to stiffen to serve as a glider. It's "possible" it's rigid/billowy enough it acted as a bit of a drag-chute for their fall or maybe even Bats "activated" it's rigidity at some point or just in time to save their fall. There's also the movie staple (and, granted, this is a weak excuse, that if you're in something that can protect you from damage it can help you survive the impact of a fall -forgeting that it's not the fall that kills you it's the stopping. See "Iron Man" for more examples of this "logic" when Stark survives many devestating falls/crashes in his suit but somehow survives.)
     
  4. SiorX

    SiorX Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So much word. Fridging Rachel was a ridiculously lazy way to turn Dent and made very little sense based on what we'd seen of Dent to that point.

    As you say, even BTAS managed better than that. Or hell, they could have done something along the lines of the backstory from The Long Halloween.

    I like TDK, but I didn't think it was sensational. I thought the pacing was a bit rough at times - a few too many crescendos with no pause to get ones breath.

    Also, I will never understand why, in a film which foreshadows things like people emulating Batman, the Joker targeting families and the morally ambiguous nature of spying through technology, the end of the film focusses on James Gordon Jr when Babs (albeit unnamed) is right there. WTF? Nobody's given a toss about James Jr since Crisis, and Barbara's right there.
     
  5. suarezguy

    suarezguy Commodore Commodore

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    I was also bugged by Joker leaving the party (I didn't get the sense that he was losing) and disliked the look of Gotham City.

    Indeed, those elements and others (Gordon deciding it was so dangerous he had to fake his death, Bruce & Lucius deciding to be unethical this once, Bruce thinking he had a pretty-forthcoming chance to quit and then feeling he had to, Batman & Gordon deciding to lie to protect the reputation of this one particular public servant, and the real-life hype about the themes) made the drama feel way overblown but unconvincing; these issues should have been dealt with in Bats' year offscreen, and will almost certainly happen in the future, so treating the underwhelming events of the film (I was impressed by the hospital explosion, maybe the attack on the mayor and the Joker's messages to the city, there could have been more of those) as exceptional was annoying.
     
  6. Lapis Exilis

    Lapis Exilis Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And I believe a ninja would have more options besides Big Scary Suit and Walking into a Room as Himself. My question wasn't - why didn't he go as Batman, it was why did he not disguise himself in some other way? Had the room been occupied with non-blindfolded people (which, really, was the most likely situation), they would have said, "Hey, Bruce Wayne! Why are you breaking into my apartment?"
     
  7. HRHTheKING

    HRHTheKING Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I felt that "Two-Face" was tacked onto the movie.

    Harvey's story should have ended after being scarred, and his full Two-Face persona developed in a third movie.
     
  8. T'Baio

    T'Baio Admiral Admiral

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    I forgot about Joker's omnipotence.

    Guy is fucking God the way he gets shit done.
     
  9. zakkrusz

    zakkrusz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Only the sad fact that it wasn't longer and had to end, awesome movie.
     
  10. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, and the Italian dub is just as bad. I just wanted to give the man a spoonful of cough syrup.

    Yet, at my theater people actually cheered out loud at that scene. So I believe it works.

    Yeah, it felt almost like a running gag: "When are they going to give hints of Barbara Gordon as Batgirl? Oh, they won't."

    Agreed. Worst mistake of the movie, in my opinion.

    I actually liked that. It gives the sense that the Joker is not just a weirdo in facepaint, he's a genius weirdo in facepaint, with a mind both brilliant and twisted.
     
  11. mirandafave

    mirandafave Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^^ For a guy without a plan he had a lot of plans and redunancy plans^^

    So does show him to be a genuis - but is he really an anarchist then - an agent of chaos? rather organised thought out chaos if so. Dunno but on reviewings this bugs me for some reason. But still actually love it.
     
  12. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Yeah, but come on. He finds TWO empty warehouses (granted, probably not all that hard) and FILLS them with TONS of explosives and he also fills TWO ferrys with TONS of explosives?

    I mean, how did he manage to smuggle barrel fulls of explosives onto two city ferrys?! And where and how did he buy all of these explosives? Certainly buying all that stuff would've perked up someone's ears considering a person can't buy a slightly more than reasonable amount of fertilizer without getting the FBI or DHS knocking on their door and The Joker buys barrels and barrels of explosives?!

    It's also interesting no one in the gun-salute team noticed the "new guys" or the guy with the horrible facial scars.

    And the narc who was going on the news station to reveal a big secret. How did that conversation go?

    "I have a big secret to tell you guys."
    "What is it?"
    "I won't say until I'm on the air."
    "... Sounds good! Get this guy to makeup!"

    And, I don't know, maybe I'm just an asshole, but...

    "So, this guy is going to blow us up unless we decide to blow up the boat full of criminals first? Hmmm, gee what SHOULD we do?!"

    The city's anger towards Batman not turning himself in also seemed like mis-placed rage. What if The Joker's demands were that all of the police pull out their guns and shoot themselves in the head? (Thus eliminating the entire police force.) Would people then demand police do that to prevent more terror?
     
  13. Lapis Exilis

    Lapis Exilis Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think it's deliberate. The Joker is a liar. He's manipulating Harvey with the "no plans" speech, just as he's manipulating Batman with the "no rules" speech. He basically just says whatever he needs to in order to fuck with someone. His elaborate plans are also good evidence that he's not actually insane.

    Joker both says, and it is shown, that it is not barrels of explosives, but barrels of gasoline wired to a detenator that probably does little more than start a spark. Conceivably he could simply steal a tanker truck and have enough gas for his various schemes.

    The utter lack of security anywhere in Gotham could be a nit, unless you assume that he simply paid everyone off to get access wherever he wanted it. The movie does begin with him stealing $68 million after all.
     
  14. MattJC

    MattJC Fleet Captain

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    Count me in among those who was annoyed that they killed off Two-Face.
     
  15. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^^There is no security in Gotham.

    Dent & Gordon have a nearly every scene together about how when Harvey was in Internal Affiairs he would uncover all the dirty cops in the city. Haravey accuses Gordon of not helping in which Gordon replies:"I can't afford to be an idealist, I have to work with what I'm given." It's also why Two-Face blames Gordon for why he became the way he looks now atthe end of the film because Gothams cops are corrupt and on the mobs payroll.

    Plus, in "Beings" they explain Wayne Industries built Gotham City, so I would guess Bruce Wayne can enter any vacant buliding in the city and not be questioned to intensely. Notice how Gordon didn't even consider giving him a ticket for running the red light and causing an accident. The Wayne name carries weight. That's why he can walk into the building without a mask. Even if questioned he's good at playing aloof.

    If Wayne Interprises helped build Gotham, then his own money would be put into any repair damage the Tumbler would cause. Putting it down as a city donation would steer away any suspicion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2008
  16. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Aloof Bruce Wayne - perfectly shown in the traffic 'accident'.
     
  17. ria 75

    ria 75 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    That it's already begun to fade in my memory.
    And that Heath Ledger will be remembered for that.
    I loved the Batman flying over the buildings scene, though.
     
  18. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Notice how Gordon doesn't even think to give him a ticket for it.

    He's Bruce freakin' Wayne, his family is the biggest real estate developers in the city. It's what Kate Holmes reminded him in "Begins", that his family name had to be upheld in Gotham because it means something too the city.
     
  19. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    That and, well, he may well have saved a man's life. ;)

    I like the aloof/rich playboy idiot Bruce Wayne in the movies so far. It's the "character" he's playing as part of his "disguise." He's also a "young" Bruce Wayne. It's possible that if the scope of the movies would/ever does reach Wayne until he's a much older and more established business man he'd be more of the tamed billionare he's supposed to be.

    But right now? He's the rich, handsome, billionare bachelor. He's allowed to be aloof and self-centered. :)
     
  20. Brian

    Brian Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The bat voice.

    The fall from a skyscraper that two people just walk away from.

    That Bruce laid down the bat-pod to avoid pedestrian Joker, when he could have blown him up from down the block. Stupidest bat-move ever.

    That ten seconds later Gordon didn't put a bullet in Joker's brain pan.

    That Gotham's finest didn't see the gut-bomb coming from 10 miles away like I did, the moment the guy first complained about his pain, not to mention putting some run of the mill thugs in Joker's presumably high-security cell with him.

    The sonar.
     

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