What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by hiddenderek, May 18, 2013.

  1. donners22

    donners22 Commodore Commodore

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    If it was a humorous parody, it worked great. As a dramatic scene, it failed badly. It was the biggest negative of the film for me. It took me right out of it, and meant that during what should have been the film's most poignant and emotional scene. Was trying hard not to laugh at the ridiculousness of it.
     
  2. Wowbagger

    Wowbagger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Try googling "iconic Star Trek moments" or "top 10 Star Trek moments" sometime.

    Here's what I found: ABC: #3, Mania: #1, IGN: #1, Badass Digest: #2, Entertainment Tonight: "most bittersweet scene of the whole franchise"

    The only other item that appears on half those lists is "City on the Edge of Forever".

    The Death of Spock is the most famous movie in the history of Star Trek -- rightly so.

    So, your question is stupid.
     
  3. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Your answer doesn't address his question. He was asking when "iconic" came to mean "it's familiar and we like it a lot."

    You answered him by showing episodes that were familiar, and that people liked a lot. So you didn't answer his question, you only made his point for him.
     
  4. Maestro

    Maestro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Last month, the father of a student in my band program passed away (while we had a concert, although the student was rightly at his side). This is my first year at this school. I found out two days later that the father had died. I was devastated. I had to close the door to my office and sit in silence for awhile to cope. I went home that weekend to see my parents just because I was emotionally compromised because of this student's loss.

    I've never met the dad. The student isn't coming back to band next year. I hardly know her!

    Yet, I was crushed by her loss.

    Why? Because she's part of my program. She's family. It's that simple.

    Part of the whole message of this movie was the importance of family, especially the family that you acquire outside of your relation. Spock had no family. Kirk had no family. They had the Enterprise and her crew. Kirk's death crushed Spock because he was family. It's that simple.

    And I love OS Star Trek. TWOK is my favorite of the movies, all of them. Yet, I bought this scene. I enjoyed this scene. I felt Spock's grief, and I believed it. Quinto nailed, and I totally believed what the writers were conveying through him.

    Because it's family. It's that simple.
     
  5. Lazergazer

    Lazergazer Ensign Red Shirt

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    So? How long had they known each other in the original series when Kirk disobeyed direct orders from Starfleet to take Spock back to Vulcan?

    Getting hung up on how long they've known each other is silly, since by the original canon they were quite close after "only a year". A lot can happen in a year.

    The entire scene was great and well acted, but I was pretty sensitive to the shout, I admit. But I've been a Trek fan all my life so I would be. No one in my theater had bad reactions to it.
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It pleases that so many other people were "sensitive to the shout". And that they also got over it, as I did.

    MY PEOPLE :adore:
     
  7. Wowbagger

    Wowbagger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I showed him that a large number of people outside the fandom recognize that scene as representative of the Star Trek franchise. Yes, it is familiar to us and we like it a lot -- but it is no less familiar to the world and the world likes it a lot. When people think of "Star Trek," the death of Spock is one of (if not the) most common single moment of the show that people think of. That's what "iconic" means.

    The iconic status of the death of Spock is not the insular, vaguely incestuous product of the fandom Adm. Buzzkill implied.
     
  8. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    I get what you're saying, but that doesn't make it iconic, though, just familiar. The death of Spock would be more symbolic, rather than iconic, since it's representative.
     
  9. Mjolnir2000

    Mjolnir2000 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    This was basically the point in the film at which I realized that they'd managed to make something even worse than Nemesis.

    Completely took me out of the story. All I could think was, "I've seen this before, except executed 10x better." I mean what the heck did they expect me to think during that scene? Was I supposed to be sad that Kirk was dead (even though everyone knew at that point that Harrison was actually Claire from Heroes, and that his/her blood could bring people back to life)? Was I supposed to be happy that they were referencing Khan? Was I supposed to think that the writers were clever for switching the characters? The whole thing just made no sense to me, and I hated it, and I have no desire to see this film again.

    Why reboot the franchise if you're just going to recycle old material? If Star Trek XI was good, it was because they did something new and different with the franchise. Into Darkness tried to be old and new at the same time, and failed to do particularly well at either.
     
  10. AlxxlA

    AlxxlA Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    It caught me completely off-guard, but with the way Abrams has been handling Spock, I should have expected it.

    I would much rather have seen him grit his teeth, cry a single tear, and unconsciously crush a nearby object before standing up, whispering "Khan" and striding off with full intentions of destroying the man who killed his best friend.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That is totally.. beautiful. Perfect.
     
  12. CommanderRaytas

    CommanderRaytas Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And it was very well put, because I agree whole-heartedly with what you said. You can't measure friendship in years.

    I liked the scene from the get-go.
     
  13. AlxxlA

    AlxxlA Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Thank you. As much as I try to hide it, my inner writer sometimes manages to slip through.
     
  14. Ah Forgive!

    Ah Forgive! Commander Red Shirt

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    I've always liked the idea that time is very hard to alter in Star Trek. In a world where Kirk grows up without guidance, or even a world where the Federation is replaced by an evil empire, the Enterprise always exists, and the same people end up on the ship (albeit with goatees and scars sometimes). Kind of the opposite of the Butterfly Effect. Even if Scotty gets stationed in the middle of nowhere, a huge coincidence will make him end up serving on the Enterprise. Huge milestones like the engine room scene will happen in every possible timeline, but sometimes with subtle differences.

    And here in our world, there was NO chance of a Khan movie being made without the shout being included in it. If Kirk had done it, the audience would have erupted into laughter. I thought having Spock do it was a clever way to avoid that.
     
  15. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Yes. And this dynamic was made explicit in the beginning when Kirk asks McCoy what Spock would do. McCoy, of course, answers something along the lines of, "He'd let you die."

    The more I think about it, the more I realize that this wasn't "a reenactment for the sake of a reenactment." The entire movie built toward the death scene - and it's pivotal not just to the film itself, but to the overall arc of Kirk, Spock and the rest of the crew. Not only that, it cements a major theme: What would you be willing to do for your family? Khan and Admiral Marcus would be willing to kill for theirs; Kirk is willing to die for his.
     
  16. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree. Really, I think the other Kirk didn't really learn humility until he was older (in the movies). This Kirk has managed to learn this lesson early on. Now, he will still be brash and bend the rules, but he'll think before he does it and take other people's advice better. And of course, it's fascinating seeing Spock's emotions boiling so close to the surface, as they were deeply buried in TOS except in certain circumstances. It would be interesting if he decided not to go through the Kolinahr this time. No, I don't expect him to become human, it would just be interesting to see him embrace his human-side instead of shun it.
     
  17. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    It's more than years. In ST:WOK, Kirk and Spock are clearly very dear friends. Even to a newbie. In STID, they're so adversarial, I could not see them as being friends at all. Maybe a little on Kirk's side, cause he was trying a little. And part of me thinks he was only trying because of the meld with Spock Prime. But I saw nothing that said Spock thought of him as a dear friend. Certainly nothing to justify his reaction. Now, Uhura dieing , maybe. But he kept his cool in ST09 even after seeing his mother die. Sure Kirk finally pushes him over the edge, but it took her death and Vulcan's destruction to do it. None of the events of STID come close to that level of personal pain for Spock.
     
  18. KittyDuran

    KittyDuran Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    he mind-melded with Pike as Pike was dying and experienced all of Pike's emotions (can't quote verbatim). But he mentions this when Uhura calls him out on his feelings in the shuttle.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  19. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    He didn't cry in the last movie because he was in shock. It's very common for someone to suppress their feelings when something so traumatic happens. When Kirk provokes him, he is enraged. In STID, when he faces his own death, he just doesn't want to feel like that again. But when he sees his best friend, after having saved them all, dying behind a door he can't open, it just overwhelms him, imo. I think he can't stand the feeling of helplessness there. And I think Kirk echoes his own feelings at one point- "I'm scared"...I think Spock is, too.
     
  20. ConRefit79

    ConRefit79 Captain Captain

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    That's just it, I don't see the best friend thing yet. I don't even see friend. I'm not even sure they have reached the level as in the 2nd pilot.