What did you like/dislike about Into Darkness (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by DavidLeeRoth, May 17, 2013.

  1. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    There were a couple of things I did find a bit disappointing:
    For one, the film never really found its nadir, at least not like the first one did. It nudged our emotions a few times, but there was never really a true "Oh no!" moment for me.

    Even the radiation scene wasn't all it could've been, I thought. While certainly a touching scene, as others of said, Kirk's fate had already been telegraphed by the tribble. So the emotional impact just wasn't what it could have been. And, while I did love the homages, they did kind of pull me out of it enough that I couldn't decide if I should smile or weep.

    I also think the dialog could have been better. One thing I've noticed about Bad Robot, going all the way back to Alias, really, is they seem to like use the dialog to push the action instead of the other way around. It's like they're always content on using "just enough."

    Tom Petty has a saying "Don't bore us; get to the chorus." I think that kind of applies to Abrams & Co. However, The Heartbreakers have also given us some of the most familiar licks and melodies in all of popular music, and a few of Campbell's guitar solos are the some of the most recognizable ever.

    I can't say the same about Orci and Kurtzman's writing. Most of the dialog in STiD (as with ST09) is really average.

    Dare I say it, but I think Cumby is a better actor than the other guy. However, most of his chewing was just a few good lines sprinkled over a lot of generic bad guy stuff.

    Even the classic literature Montalban quoted half the time, added an extra spice of panache that accentuated the allure of his gravitas.

    Cumby just didn't have that.

    And as a whole, I just think their could have been a bit more "talking" to help flesh out both the theme and the drama. The brig scene, for example, could have been a little longer.

    I get that is meant to be a "popcorn flick" and all that (and graded appropriately), I just think it's the one thing that sets both Trek films apart from the great genre films of the modern era.

    There just aren't those same kind of memorable conversation exchanges that leap right off the screen and immediately imprint themselves on your brain that some of those other films have.

    I do believe there's true greatness in a Star Trek film somewhere. I'm still waiting for someone to find it.

    Which brings up another interesting point: If the regenerative properties of Khan's blood are "nonsense," how come parasites who just happened to be the only creatures to survive a total cataclysm and possess extremely convenient magical abilities aren't?

    The Real Star Trek™ double standard strikes again.
     
  2. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Not really. The immune system can be tricked by many parasites, and many of the parasites we are immune to were parasites that we evolved with. An alien parasite could be devastating, even to an augment.
     
  3. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    What do that have to do with my question?
     
  4. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Because your question makes no sense. It's Star Trek- it requires one to take certain things for granted because no one truly cares about the physiology of a parasite and how people with advanced immune systems react to said parasites. It's all a work of fiction where people make stuff up about aliens. And if you are going to call out this movie for it, you have to call out every other single series and every other movie, because they all make stuff up, too. Or, you could just say "well, that's how the story went so I guess this kind of fits with it", which is the point.
     
  5. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

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    For me, I hated the subplot involving the family. I have noticed that not many people, here or in the reviews, have discussed this, and I find that interesting. We are being asked to accept that a father will do anything to save his daughter, including blowing up a facility and killing 42 people. I know of three instances of when a person would do this act: (1.) they are doing this to see the world burn (ex. Joker); (2) they are doing this to communicate a statement (ex. the Boston Bombers) or (3.) they are doing this under duress.

    What is conveyed in the film is that Khan offered his blood freely and he didn't force the man to do this criminal act. He did it, well, he did it because Khan convinced him.

    The situation was confused. The man accepted Khan's offer without duress, yet he acted like a man on death row. I feel there needed to be more of an explanation. For instance, how did Khan convince this man to commit an act that many of us would be incapable of doing? At the end of the day, I feel that this shows that the writers don't have an understanding of why people become suicide bombers.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Khan likely told him he'd go in and crush his daughters skull if he was double-crossed. Just because the movie doesn't implicitly show the exchange doesn't mean we can't figure it out.
     
  7. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    It's not confusing at all. People have committed the most heinous acts in the name of love. I'm sure you'd be able to find people willing to do something like that in order to save their only child. Most parents would give up their lives for their children's life without hesitation. People will come up with any justification for what they want, and he wasn't going to have to live with the guilt of what he did.
     
  8. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    It made fine sense. I was lamenting on the irony that magic slugs okay but magic blood is not okay.

    That was my point!

    Star Trek, it's all:

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Psion

    Psion Commodore Commodore

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    And what amazing resurrection properties did augment DNA demonstrate in either Enterprise or DS9? And don't say stem cells in this context because we're talking about a technique unknown to Federation medicine. Remember, this cured a little girl of a terminal disease and brought both Kirk and a tribble back from the dead. Stem cells don't do that. Federation doctors can't do that. But the blood of a selective breeding subject from the mid 20th century can? That strains credulity ... we've strayed into vampire or comic book territory now.

    CorporalClegg, the Ceti Alpha eels were a little convenient, but there was nothing magical about their survival ... Khan kept them alive, possibly to help ensure his control of the others, possibly as a morbid reminder of his dead wife. Perhaps he tormented his "pets" in retribution. But if you want magic in Wrath of Khan, then look no further than the ridiculous Genesis Device ... and guess what? I didn't like that thing either. So there's no double-standard.
     
  10. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    And how many times did the orignal Mcoy or Crusher or Bashier or the Doctor come up with some cure to some diesese that no one else could find a cure in a matter of hours.

    Hell the Doctor brought nelix back to life with seven of Nines nano probes.

    Its startrek just go with the flow.
     
  11. TommyW

    TommyW Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    That would have given me goosebumps if it wasn't for the 2 "Enterprise rising from" sequences we've already seen in the reboots
     
  12. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Certain proteins can help repair damaged cells. Why do people get cancer? Because the cell's DNA has mutated and it reproduces all throughout the body until the normal cells can no longer function. As we get older, our cells lose the ability to replicate themselves cleanly which is why older people get cancer more frequently, and it's also why a traumatic event will be more deadly for an old person. Death is caused when the cells in vital organs can no longer replicate or replace themselves (excluding the brain- any damage to vital areas of the brain will also cause death).

    If augment blood can repair or replace dead or dying cells, which seems to be the case, then there's your answer. How? We don't know, we're not told, other than platelets (which, really, don't help in this case), but obviously there's something else in the augment's blood that can do it (stem cells included). This article explains the stem cells found in regular blood. Scientists right now are studying ways to promote cell repair and replication because they believe it is the key to helping humans live longer and healthier lives (the study of Progeria is helping scientists understand why people are prone to heart disease and stroke as we age).

    So at least there's a theory- at least it's not a magic box like the Genesis Device.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  13. JJohnson

    JJohnson Captain Captain

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    I was a bit annoyed, as with the 2009 movie, with Chekov being on the ship in the 2250s, when he was only 10-15 years old (he was born in 2245). Sulu was born in 2237, so during the first movie, he should've been in the academy and not even have graduated yet.

    I enjoyed Carol Marcus being there, but I wish there was a bit more sympathy, relationship building between her and Kirk to justify her line about being glad having a family, a bit more foreshadowing. Showing us Gary Mitchell in this film as one of Kirk's friends from the academy would've been really nice.

    I still dislike this version of the Enterprise for having such a ridiculously small and misshapen engineering section that can't hold the huge brewery/engineering section it's supposedly got, and the warp core here apparently doesn't have any dilithium regulating the reaction.

    I did like Spock's cameo, and the nod to Star Trek 2: "you'd better come down here. better...hurry."
     
  14. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Chekov was 17 in the 2009 movie, they changed his age.
    They made the Enterprise much bigger in the 2009 movie, 725m long over the original's 289. Engineering fits just fine in there.
     
  15. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Speaking of, has it been stated how big Vengeance is? It must be the size of a small moon.
     
  16. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Her father was murdered. She's just making a statement, not anything about her relationship with Kirk.
     
  17. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    1450m or so. Taller than most of our largest skyscrapers but dwarfed by the average large American city.

    Or, about a quarter of the size of the NuGalactica.
     
  18. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Uh... the nuPrise is 3/4 the length of the nuGalactica. The Vengeance is probably as long as or longer than the nuPegasus.
     
  19. Loli Machinegun

    Loli Machinegun Cadet Newbie

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    let's make a quick list of all the bad shit about it

    >Blue Bussard cells.
    >The warp effects being so different from the first movie's badass effects.
    >Enterprise working in-atmosphere .
    >Making the USS Vengeance BLACK 'N SCARY.
    >Khan not being played by someone who looked like Fabio.
    >Not even batting an eye at the hundreds (thousands maybe) that died when the USS Vengeance crashed into Starfleet Academy and fucking leveled half of San Fransisco.
    >The first scene having no explanation.
    >The first scene's plan being fucking terribly thought out and executed (Bungee jump into a volcano and see what happens, Spock.)
    >The gunship not blasting Pike into bits when it hits him with its disruptor cannon. Shit, they made that thing sound and feel so beefy, I'd expect it to fucking gib him.
    >When the Admiral's head gets mushed, his daughter is all smiles the next day. Sure he was a dick, but I'd be pretty fucking traumatized after that.
    >Some other little things that also don't really matter, because I nitpick everything.

    Alright, now for the good shit

    >Starting it off with a TOS-style alien world with badass makeup on the natives, and generally good art direction.
    >The art direction in general.
    >The fucking Klingon patrol ships on Kronos, god DAMN that was awesome.
    >Khan[ lifting that giant cannon thing that subsequently ripped people's limbs off with each shot.
    >Actually surprising me in being Wrath of Khan Two: Electric Bugaloo. When he made the reveal I knew a few seconds beforehand that he was probably going to be Khan, but it still got me to WOAH a bit. I think they handled it pretty well.
    >Catgirls.
    >Showing the warp core (the fuck was that? Did they film it at CERN or something? It looked expensive).
    >The effects.
    >The acting, shit. Damn near everyone was amazing. Kirk made a good Kirk, Spock could walk the walk, Bones was a dick with bad lines (as he should be), Cho made an adequate Sulu, that little Russian kid made a pretty good Chekhov, and McCoy is on par with Pine's acting. Damn great crew they chose.
    >When Khan mushes the Admiral's head. That fucking crunch, Jesus.

    Overall, a very entertaining movie. Very well done aside from a few artistic liberties they took, really.

    8.8/10
     
  20. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why does the color matter? Would you have preferred none, like the Prime movie era ships?

    The "in subspace" effect was the same; the "jump to warp" effect was substantially the same, just with the "trail" added. And more than justified by the extensive engineering refits the ship has apparently had.

    Just like "Tomorrow is Yesterday". (Now, if you wanted to complain about it working underwater... ;))

    The ship is off the books already (because who at Starfleet in their right minds would accept a ship with that name). What's a few buckets of paint at that point? :p

    The Enterprise crew wasn't exactly in a position to bat an eye at that point. Kirk did acknowledge the heavy death toll in his scene at the end. What else would you have liked to have seen done here?

    I thought it explained itself pretty well. And it wasn't supposed to be a bungee jump!

    "The next day"? That scene was almost a year later.

    Lawrence Livermore Laboratory's National Ignition Facility.