What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Destructor, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    For those of you who haven't read it yet, what Timby says here is pretty much the crux of what Michael Piller's book, FADE IN, actually says about the writing process behind the movie. :) It was Patrick Stewart whose influence on Insurrection was overpowering. Piller doesn't actually say that's a bad thing either, he says it was his job is to keep his star happy and that's why he made the rewrites he did in order to accomodate everything Stewart said he wanted, but nevertheless Stewart made a number of suggestions which basically over-took the story as originally written and severely dampened its impact in a number of ways.

    I tend to think of INS as being Stewart's one "primma-donna" moment on Star Trek. He was (and is) a very giving actor, but that was the movie where, flush from the success of First Contact, he really weilded power. So he finally got all of those things he said he'd wanted for seven years of the TV show. What Stewart couldn't see was that his suggestions were unbalancing the movie.

    Spiner did give notes on INS too, but most of those were pointing out the logic problems of the story (and not, in fact, related to making Data more central to the plot -- that was one of Stewart's ideas). In fact Piller goes as far as to suggest that Spiner only gave sound advice and that he wishes he'd listened to it and ammended the story accordingly.

    The studio heads also gave notes about the logic problems, but again Berman/Piller opted not to take those notes on board. So we got the movie we got despite at least two seperate parties pointing out significant problems with the script.
     
  2. Last Redshirt

    Last Redshirt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    They should've followed the suggestions of the studio and Spiner. Stewart, as others have pointed out, finally got to have influence in his character and ended up driving the movie into the ground.

    I would've preferred a Starfleet v Starfleet story, instead of hamfisting some alien race that no one gives a shit about into it. Hell, it would've made more sense, with the Enterprise being divided as Picard leads the group trying to keep Starfleet out of the Ba'ku, while Riker or Worf adamantly defend Starfleet and take their side.
     
  3. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Imagine boobs on Michael Horton. :p (For having not many lines, he hasn't manly lines, he isn't even there at senior staff meeting.)
     
  4. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    More of a "primma-donna" moment than the dune buggy movie?

    :)
     
  5. Last Redshirt

    Last Redshirt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    His role in First Contact made sense, having been evacuated from the Defiant, but, his role in Insurrection and Nemesis seemed to exist solely because they needed to have the whole cast together. They should've at least given a reason why Worf was on the Enterprise instead of being on DS9.
     
  6. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Fair point. :D But to be fair the Dune Buggy was but one single sequence, whereas with INS he 'got it his way' for an entire movie! ;)
    I can distinctly remember Michael Dorn giving an interview for the official Star Trek magazine around the time he joined DS9, saying he agreed to come back and do more television on the proviso that he wouldn't be needed in the movies as well. I can only assume when the call came from his agent offering X amount of dollars he found himself changing his mind... :rofl:
     
  7. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't know about that. Wasn't the whole idea of a Picard clone who had it bad in life Stewart's idea?
     
  8. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is minor and has been mentioned elsewhere, but someone should say it once here:
    How about featuring an actual insurrection?

    INSURRECTION
    From www.merriam-webster.com:
    or
    From dictionary.reference.com:
    From www.thefreedictionary.com:
    Exactly who is revolting in this movie?

    And if anyone wants to say "the Son'a": well, I beat you to it. :p
     
  9. foxmulder710

    foxmulder710 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The best improvement that could've been made to Insurrection would've been for the film not to have been made. :)
     
  10. Last Redshirt

    Last Redshirt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I mean, they could've had a perfect reason for him being there. Have him be on the ship in Insurrection because the Defiant got ordered to the Briar Patch and Sisko put Worf in charge. Nemesis, have him be on board as a guest, for one last hurrah with the old crew, or because of Troi's wedding and he's touring the ship and they get the alert to go to the Neutral Zone.
     
  11. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Everybody.
     
  12. Kronos

    Kronos Admiral Admiral

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    They should have burned the script, Piller's orginal story was also going to be bad, they got off in the wrong direction choosing him to write it.
     
  13. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That ones easy, Picard and his crew. The Admiral wasn't out there on his own, he was ordered there by the Federation Council and was acting on their orders.

    One of the things that would have improved the movie would have been some (at least one) of Picard command crew rebelling against Picard's actions, or at minimum trying to talk to him.

    Beverly would have been the perfect choice, she really should have been on the side of the medical benefits of the particle ring being distributed to patients across the Federation. Deanna backing up Beverly on this would have been good.

    Riker going head to head with Picard would have been better still.

    The command crew have shown in the past that they were well able to oppose Picard viewpoints.

    :)
     
  14. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Hmm. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that earlier versions of both INS and NEM offered explanations for Worf's presence -- if I recall correctly the former made some reference to Jadzia's death while the latter was something about life as an ambassador just not working out for him -- which would have been much better than what explanation we actually got (which was NOTHING :D). My remembrance is that Rick Berman insisted the first explanation be cut because of international markets being a fair way behind the American broadcasts of DS9, and it contained references to things that hadn't yet happened for those viewers. In other words: "spoilers". ;) Which is a fair point, admittedly. I can't recall why the reference in NEM was removed though. Possibly they just didn't care? He's there for the wedding and just kind of tags along. Like a puppy. :p
     
  15. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Half a dozen people disobeying orders is not an insurrection. If you want to read it as one, you'll need to use the term that Starfleet would use. MUTINY.

    Yes, and it isn't treated as insurrection (or mutiny) when they do. Usually.
     
  16. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Some good ideas here, with Picard vs some crew ... I'd think you would have a running battle between Riker on E and Picard on whatever he is flying, with Picard trying to convince Riker long-distance to reconsider his position, and Riker being caught in the Weps-in-CRIMSONTIDE position of having to change his mind and side with Picard against Starfleet vessels sent in to settle matters. That's be worth the title (assuming you could offer a view that would have ME siding with Picard, which hasn't ever happened yet.) The Ba'ku have to be the most selfish people in the trekverse.
     
  17. -Brett-

    -Brett- Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Most importantly I think would be more likable protagonists. Not sure why the Ba'ku needed to be Amish immigrants rather than naturally primitive natives. Making them immigrants (rightly or wrongly) confuses the moral issue they were trying to bring up, and making them able but not willing to participate in their own defense instead of the other way around makes them unsympathetic.

    Replacing the space magic with natural resources found on the surface, preferably in the plants or animals would have helped too. The sight of forrests being razed and animals slaughtered would have communicated the environmentalist message they seemed to be going for better than some plasticy toy thing stealing a planets magic rings.
     
  18. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    There are so many things wrong with Insurrection's script, but I think the thing which bugs me the most is the Bak'u themselves. Putting aside all the very good points everybody has made already, there's also the "hypnotism hypothesis", which states that they effectively brainwash Picard and his crew. We're given some talk of the unique chemical properties of the planet, but it's not without admission that the crew start to act 'funny' in the presence of the Bak'u. Heck, Picard's entire decision to throw his lot in with them comes about because Anij flirts with him a bit, but what if she's using whatever powers she has to "persuade" him to do so? The comparisons to Picard's own position in TNG: Journey's End only make the character about-turn even more obvious.

    The only *real* problem with a Picard vs Riker story would be that, inevitably, one or the other of them would be left looking the dick for having taken the side they did. So you'd either get Picard pwning Riker for being such a duticious toy soldier, or else Riker... okay okay, let's face it, that's exactly what we'd get, because the script would never dare infer that Picard was the one who was in the wrong. :p
     
  19. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Enterprise E's complement is well over a hundred times that number. While never stated on screen, unofficial gamer and fan estimates exceed 700.

    You incredible missed the point I was making (you knew that right?). I was addressing an entirely different matter at that point in my post, a suggested change in the plot, which is the subject of this thread.

    The "insurrection" would have been the Enterprise's officers and crew revolt against the official position of the Federation.

    Not following the lawful orders of the Admiral might be considered mutiny, but the insurrection again would have been against the Federation itself .

    :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
  20. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You're revolted by the characters?:p

    By the way, the Enterprise-E's crew already disobeyed orders in First Contact and two movies ago, it was Spock and the Enteprise-A to prevent an actual insurrection.
     

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