What could have improved 'Insurrection'?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Destructor, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. Destructor

    Destructor Commodore Commodore

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    I am going to watch Insurrection with some friends tonight and so I was thinking a few thoughts:

    1. Did anyone else read the book by Michael Piller about the making of STIX? It was really interesting, but also frustrating because they had a lot of really good ideas for the film that ultimately never came to fruition.

    2. Why oh why did they never finish the special effects shots in the collector at the end of the film? I am talking specifically about the background of the collector (which was supposed to be open space, which would have been cool, but ends up being, I think, the actual bluescreen they were using for those shots, which looks terrible), and the final 'de-aging' animation the main villain. Question: Would Insurrection have been a better film, had those FX shots been completed? Is a Director's Edition likely or possible?

    3. What else should they have done? I think they had the core of a good movie in there, but it just fell sideways a bit. I think they should have a. dropped the Anij character; b. dropped Data's stupid subplot with the kid; c. I'm not sure they needed the 'holoship planning to take everyone away' element of the story- they could have moved directly to 'Federation admiral plotting to steal the radiation wholesale.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ditch the S'ona. Made the film Starfleet vs. Starfleet (maybe Picard vs. Riker). Return to the concept that the planet was chock full of minerals that was the basis of the Federation's medical technology. Kill off one of the characters due to not having access to the mineral.
     
  3. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A misconception. The Son'a color scheme simply favors blue lights.
     
  4. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If nothing else could be changed, I would have at least liked the Ba'ku to be likeable, and really in need, and not the arrogant pissants we got that didn't "need" anything.

    I could have actually enjoyed the movie on another level.
     
  5. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    A better script and ILM doing the effects might have made all the difference. I intend to read Piller's FADE IN sometime. In short, was Piller's work basically compromised by other parties (studio execs, demands from actors, ect)? I know he had a lot of problems with VOY that he was forced to leave. It's a shame that the guy who made such a big impact in a positive way in Trek was eventually cast out the way he was. He deserved to leave the franchise on a better note than VOY or INSURRECTION.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think Insurrection had two major problems: having a locked in release date before hiring a writer and allowing Stewart and Spiner to have input on the script.

    IIRC, in Fade In, Spiner told Piller that he didn't understand how to write Data. :lol:
     
  7. Destructor

    Destructor Commodore Commodore

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    I can't tell if you are joking or not!

    FADE IN is interesting, I recommend it. I think it is a really interesting case study of an initial vision being diluted by too many voices, too many 'good ideas', and being diluted again by a rushed film with not enough time or money to execute the vision.
     
  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, I have that file somewhere and never got around to reading it. But from what I know of it, yeah, it would have been a better movie had Piller had his way.

    As Tosk said, it actually wasn't unfinished VFX, and honestly I never even noticed it until someone pointed it out. As for the Ru'afo de-aging scene, it reminded me of the cut scene in TWOK where Khan's baby admires the Genesis device before it explodes and kills him. It's just creepy, and I'm glad it was cut.

    Well, if by "what else should they have done," you mean what else should they have done while still in the confines of the Bak'u/Son'a story, then I really don't know. I found the story very boring. I constantly hear that it seemed more like a two-parter from season 7, and I couldn't agree more. The only two things that really moved me was when Geordi got his eyesight back, and the ironic relationship between a boy who's been taught that technology is bad, and yet befriends Data (which essentially mirrors what happened with Ru'afo and the other Son'a, so it's chilling to think that Artim could eventually go down that path too.)
     
  9. Gep Malakai

    Gep Malakai Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He's not; it looks like bluescreen lining the inside of the set, but it isn't. There's behind-the-scenes pics floating around out there that show greenscreen being used in the collector interior set (to facilitate set extensions and such), complete with tracking markers. If the blue walls were intended to be replaced by VFX, it doesn't make much sense that a.) they'd be a different color from the stuff that was replaced in post, and b.) they'd be entirely devoid of tracking markers.
     
  10. Tosk

    Tosk Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Also (for what it's worth) we see the exterior of the collector, and it is not transparent.
     
  11. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Commodore Commodore

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    The story just needed to be reformatted, that's all. Also, the reliance on the tradition that Ugly People are Bad & The Beautiful People are Good reduces the impact of the Blood Feud, I feel. If they had all looked like the same race, having it be hard to tell who to side with would've made it much more interesting. The Magical Powers of Anij just had to go. The Amish Ways of the Ba'ku also needed to go, especially as they "kept up" with current technology, anyways. With judicious rewriting, this motion picture could've gone down some very interesting roads and made a lot more sense, than maybe it did, before. Nevertheless, I'm still quite fond of INSURRECTION - it's entertaining popcorn fare!
     
  12. Viper78

    Viper78 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    When released I thought Insurrestion was a little bit of a let down compared with the high action First Contact, I always felt it was more like a TNG episode that didn't seem quite right.

    However after watching it a few more times I've come to appreciate it much more, I came to the conclusion that because it felt like a TNG episode is the reason I've grown to like it more and the reason it does't seem right is down to the unfimiliar surrounding of the Enterprise-E.

    While I quite like the "E" the change of ship and sets had an affect on the TNG films after Generations. Loss of that familiarity seemed to change the TNG for me.

    I don't dislike the darker style series, far from it in fact as I loved DS9 and the Reimagined BSG, I just think it changed TNG and not for the better.
     
  13. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Eugh! What? Did that really happen? It creeps me out just imagining it. I've tried a quick search of these forums but cannot find anything about it.

    For what it's worth, I love INS just as it is. The one thing I'd do is jettison Worf. He'd moved on to DS9 and the producers should have gotten over it.
     
  14. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    1. Someone should have controlled Spiner's influence on the script.
    2. Cut out the rest of the corn in the script.
    3. Have both the Sona and the Baku be worth Picard's time.
     
  15. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    Same here. Personally, I would have brought in a new female security chief (she wouldn't have had many lines, but she would have been Worf's replacement in both Insurrection and Nemesis).
     
  16. HIjol

    HIjol Admiral and Consummate Peacemaker Premium Member

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    I liked the movie well enough, but casting F. Murray Abraham in the role of Ru'afo just did not sit well with me...he is an incredible talent, and I love his work, but not in this role...
     
  17. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    BillJ already completely nailed it in the very first reply of the thread:

    :techman: :techman: :techman:
     
  18. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Things that could have been left out.

    All of Data's interactions with the little boy, I know that some fans enjoyed it, but I found it basically tiresome.

    The manual joy stick on the bridge. Just can't find a single realistic reason for it.

    The boobs joke, certain don't have Data repeat it to Worf.

    Admittedly it's not TWOK, that said I like this movie more than many do, on the most part I'd leave it alone. If you change too much of it, it would be possible to make it considerably worse.

    :)
     
  19. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    The bigger problem was Stewart, who got his Associate Producer title after First Contact made bank, and then he just got completely schizophrenic about Picard's character -- he wanted it to be a philosophical story, then when he got that he decided that Picard couldn't be weak so he needed to be an action hero, then when he got that he felt that he needed to have a romantic plot, and when he got the romance subplot he said it was just too much.

    Let the actors act and let the writers write (Spiner having a favored-nation contract meant that he got to impact the story of Nemesis).
     
  20. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So it wasn't Spiner's fault.
    I just hated 'Data' in NEM. It was just too much crazy for me. Just awful, awful. The little boy reminded me of Boxy in original BSG or Anakin in Star Wars 1.

    I'd pick 'Data' in NEM any day (Post buggy ride).