What are the core and best episodes?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Galahir950, Jan 1, 2014.

  1. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    But WHAT IF your parents gave you a unicycle one year on the eighth night, to fuck with you? Because while it's true no one else had one of these things and it's expensive and you didn't expect it it is also odd and useless. I mean you're not going to go down the shops on it, are you.
     
  2. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    I'll accept that time-traveling Nazis are odd and useless, and the parents who give them to their Jewish children on the eighth night of Chanukah are particularly cruel.

    In all seriousness, I learned this year (thanks to the earliness of the holiday, the lateness of end of year sales, and an illness that kept me in bed) that it's more effective to frontload the gifts rather than put all the emphasis on the last night.
     
  3. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    1123 6536 5321
    E2 would be somewhere in my Top 10 ENT eps, but for the record my Top 3 would probably be
    3. Azati Prime
    2. Broken Bow
    1. Twilight


    I think I once worked out my favourite Top 10 eps of all of Star Trek and Twilight was the one ENT ep to appear
     
  4. milojthatch

    milojthatch Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Location:
    Greater Los Angeles Area
    First, while I admit it had it's flaws, I count myself as a fan that enjoyed "These Are The Voyage..." and appreciate what they were trying to do. In my own personal opinion, I feel that had it been a two hour show instead of a one hour show, it would have been a better show. I felt they were trying to cram too much stuff into such a small amount of time, and the story suffered for it.

    Second, besides being the last episode of the show, TATV is essential to the over all arc of the show as it was in part about the founding of the Federation. Seriously, how much more essential can you get than that? Yes, I admit I wish we had actually heard Archer's speech, but again, read my first paragraph.
     
  5. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    1123 6536 5321
    ^ I always imagine he reused his infamous gazelle speech ;)
     
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    The episode has major problems, most notably that all the action takes place in the 24th century. What we see is Riker and Troi interacting with photons and forcefields. Moreover, those holographic projections can't be called an accurate representation of what happened in the 22nd century. How could the specific actions and emotions of the individuals be known in such detail? The truth would be that the person who constructed the narrative filled in the thoughts and feelings based on how his or her values and interests. At best, it's an historical novel. At worst, it's fanfic. Whatever Riker could have learned from the program would reflect the writer's values, not Trip's. Finally, the whole episode was in discord with “Pegasus” and with the character of Riker. Escaping into the holodeck? I don't believe it.

    That said, I'm not sure that as a conclusion or epilogue to the post 1987 era that TATV does better. Because the action takes place within one time frame and within the constraints of a previous episode, the story lacks breadth. It's largely contained. It reflects an aspect of TNG very well: the ethical obligation of the individual. That value was not as important to TOS, DS9 or VOY as it was in TNG. Indeed, there's nothing of DS9's or Voyager's ideas in TATV, even though ENT borrowed from them.

    Moreover, ENT was doing a good job of making those connections on its own. We had almost an entire season of fanwanking—albeit well done—in which major narrative and themes were tied together. Many things related to the previous series had been filled in relating to genetics, mysticism, and humanism (under the guise of the formation of the Federation). There was even a compelling guest appearance from a beloved TNG cast member. Season four was the valentine to fans that TATV was not. Furthermore, it was informative rather than summary.

    In the TNG finally, Q tells Picard that “worrying about Commander Riker's career [and] listening to Counselor Troi's pedantic psychobabble” were not enlightening endeavors. That's exactly what TATV gives us.
     
  7. Robbiesan

    Robbiesan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    The last thing that many of us wanted was to see TNG again in this manner, but to bring closure to Enterprise. It was a poor send off and very disappointing. Each show stands on their own merit in the franchise. It was almost as if Enterprise was a stepchild and so lesser loved and unnecessary to conclude it well.

    I can remember my mouth dropping and going, "What!' as it aired.And I loved TNG.
     
  8. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    The irony is that the previous episode finished on a high note, wih lets explore the galaxy together. The problem with TATV is that it was a series fianlé and it wasn't about the ENT characters but about TNG characters. ST has done so called valentine's to the fans before DSN's "Trials and Tribble-ations" and VOY's "Flashback", for me the best of thos has to be DSN's. It seemed as if everyone involved in making it went the extra mile.

    I might have ended TATV with showing the actual signing of the Federation Charter, as for archer's speech all you have to do is have the first few lines of it.
     
  9. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    To be fair* though Trek kind of sucks at stirring speeches. Maybe we should be glad we only have a few lines.

    *to be fair to the speech, not to be fair to TATV which deserves to be shat on from orbit
     
  10. Santa Claws

    Santa Claws Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2003
    Location:
    On the lookout for doppel-me...
    Well said! :techman:

    If ENT had finished its run with Terra Prime, I would have been content. (Well, I still would have wanted season five, but you know what I mean.)

    What, you don't get misty-eyed hearing about the gazelles? :wtf:

    Not from orbit. It would be too easy to miss.
     
  11. Robbiesan

    Robbiesan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    For some strange reason I can't get "shat from orbit" out of mind. It reminds me too much of National Lampoon's famous cover of Santa Claus taking a dump down the chimney.
     
  12. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
  13. milojthatch

    milojthatch Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Location:
    Greater Los Angeles Area
    I think part of the thing about TATV is that the powers that be were trying to recon the fact that in the TNG era, Archer and his crew mattered. I also think the story became set in the holodeck to avoid fan grumblings about another Sci-Fi/Star Trek plot device: time travel. I personally don't feel there was anything wrong with trying to wrap up the original run of Star Trek with that episode. I do however feel that having two hours to work with would have given Berman and Braga time to explore the TNG view of Enterprise better.

    I never saw it as an episode of Enterprise and kind of almost wished they had slapped the TNG intro on there and I appreciate what they were trying to do. They were trying to give us fans one more episode of TNG on their way out, and the only way it was going to happen was under the Enterprise banner. The fact is (nothing against DS9, Voyager or Enterprise) the pillars that holdup this whole franchise are TOS and TNG, and they were trying to show some respect to that fact with a bigger focus on TNG as that is the show most of the behind the scenes crew (not just Berman) started their Star Trek careers on.

    I get why a lot of the fans and many of the Enterprise cast grumbled about the episode, sure. I think however, part of that is due to view point. If you view it for the way I think the intent was, that Demons and Terra Prime are the actual ending of the show Enterprise and TATV is the ending of the Prime Star Trek Universe, it's not so bad.

    If it had been up to me, I wish they had been able to make a feature film instead that brought all five captains together, but keeping to what they had to work with, I'd have rather it been:

    -A two hour episode
    -Set on the Titan instead of the Enterprise-D (maybe even have spent some of the episode not on the holodeck and getting to see the Titan at work?)
    -Not had the threat been an alien of the week, but rather a species with more Star Trek weight (i.e. Klingons or Nausicaans or something)
    -Not kill Trip off (or if they really had to, make it be bigger like saving the entire Federation signing audience)
    -Shown something from the Romulan war

    Past that, I really don't have any complaints. I think it had a lot of potential that it was never allowed to achieve.
     
  14. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    More than anything, making the interaction between Riker and NX-01 crew both real and consequential would vastly improved the episode. Even a time travel episode that put Riker (and Troi) in the 22nd century would have been a major improvement.
     
  15. Yanks

    Yanks Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Location:
    NX01 Bridge
    It might be easier to list the "skippers". It's only 4 years.

    For GODS sake do not show him the abortion that is called TATV. I've seen some chat about it here, I wont as there is a TATV thread for that.

    But scratch it off your DVD's, erase it from Netflix... whatever you have to do.

    The series more aptly ended with Terra Prime.

    I'll list my Top Ten to help you out. (can't miss episodes in my book)

    #1. Carbon Creek (S2)
    #2. Observer Effect (S4)
    #3. The Vulcan Arc (S4)
    #4. Dead Stop (S2)
    #5. First Flight (S2)
    #6. Twilight (S3)
    #7. Terra Prime / Demons (S4)
    #8. Similitude (S3)
    #9. The Seventh (S2)
    #10. Azati Prime through Zero Hour (S3)


    An Enterprise viewing wouldn't be complete without IAMD Part I&II also.

    Of you want, I'll throw together a "skippers" list for you.