Western genre feature film resurgence 2010-2015

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by jefferiestubes8, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Ain't that the truth. He has a lot to say about Westerns as a genre, but doesn't seem to have seen a lot of the actual movies.
     
  2. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^Still saw enough of them to know you frequently misreport, distort and generally screw up simple descriptions.

    But don't be bashful, limiting yourself to a random drive-by potshot. Be brave, explain to us how Justified and Hatfields & McCoys and Django Unchained are Westerns. If it makes you bolder, I won't respond to your post either.
     
  3. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    And this from the guy who posted such off-base stuff as:
    • Henry Fonda was the hero in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
    • There are rarely Union Civil War veterans as heroes in Westerns
    • Major Dundee wasn't the hero in Major Dundee
    • Wild Bill Hickock's wartime service was never dealt with in a move
    • Vera Cruz was racist because the Gary Cooper character was a former Confederate
    • Duel in the Sun was racist in its treatment of the Pearl character

    I think informed readers can make up their minds about who knows what they are talking about.

    No thanks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  4. flandry84

    flandry84 Captain Captain

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    To reply to an earlier point-that the corporate thugs in Outland have no precedent in the traditional western.
    Nonesense.
    What were the Pinkerton men in The Long riders?
    Frank Morgan(Henry Fonda)in Once upon a time in the west.
    The railroads hired killers in Mc Cabe & Mrs.Miller.
    And to further stretch the genre,the corporate killers in Matewan.
     
  5. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The corporation's use of drugs to quell the workers is wholly unlike the traditional Western. But it is interesting to note that McCabe & Mrs. Miller is very much not a traditional Western, self-refuting the argument. And even this poster has to admit that Matewan is a stretch. If you try to argue that an opinion is nonsense, you really have to do better than this. It is far better not to go to J.T.B.'s school of misrepresentation and irrelevance.

    It's not a hard question: In what "useful" sense are Justified and Hatfields & McCoys and Django Unchained Westerns?
     
  6. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Right, right, because I've called out your glaring inaccuracies and can actually back it up. As opposed to generalized declamations and, in the absence of something substantive, personal baiting as shown above. Which indicates to me that you don't really care so much about watching and discussing Westerns as scoring points in furtherance of some personal agenda. Have fun.
     
  7. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You've never successfully backed up anything you've argued against me. Also you have misrepresented what I've said, except for my assertion that Wild Bill Hickock is not portrayed as a Union veteran. But if you think coming up with movie that does treat his service compares to its absence in so many movies were Hickock has a part is more than a quibble? Your humiliation at being refuted has led you into error.

    But the racial subtext in the traditional Western, the issue that really has you so angry you can't think straight, is not the topic in this thread. You only came in to pursue a cheap revenge at being whipped on that topic. But, put aside your wounded vanity, take a genuine revenge by high-mindedly answering the question that somehow provoked such mindless but mean-spirited posts: In what useful sense are Justified, and Hatfields & McCoys, and Django Unchained Westerns? Aside from being hicks flicks, that is?

    (By the way, the topic of race in traditional Westerns is not necessarily resolved in my favor, as a more discerning poster might be able to make valid arguments, unlike you.)
     
  8. flandry84

    flandry84 Captain Captain

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    Wtth respect STJ(or at least more than you have shown anyone)I still don't understand your argument.
    Just what are the criteria you accept in defining a western?
    Locale,time or theme?
    Locale(by strict definitions)would exclude movies like Coogan's bluff,Last of the mohicans,Hell even The Magnificent 7 which doesn't even take place in America.Is Texas south or west?
    Time-no Lonely are the brave,HI-LO country,Brokeback mountain.
    Theme-well define that one first.Is Justified out because it is a crime driven show?Half the western movies I have seen feature Sheriffs ,outlaws and much more.
     
  9. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    That's moving the goal post, because the statement I was responding to was not about proportion, but that Hickock being a Union veteran was "never" part of a film about him. I thought someone well versed in the history of Westerns might be passing familiar with The Plainsman, which was so formative for the Hickock/Calamity Jane myth, and remember Gary Cooper waiting for a riverboat in his soldier blue.

    As for the rest of it, it's still there for all to see. Generalized and non-specific. Notably, the "classic western" on which so much of the argument depends, is never defined:
    http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=120592

    But instead of telling everyone how inaccurate and inept I am, go ahead and show them. Expand on your comments about Henry Fonda in She Wore A Yellow Ribbon (a film in which he does not appear). Or the racism in Vera Cruz. Or Duel in the Sun. Quote a line, cite a scene.

    No, I came in to agree with Harvey, that arguing with you is pointless. Which is obviously correct unless someone enjoys being personally badgered. And I think it's obvious from the language displayed here who is angry.

    I don't disagree with all the racial subtext claims, just the simplistic and over-broad assertion that that was the factor that ended Westerns' mainstream popularity. And some claims about specific movies which are wrong.

    Your assumption of the position I would take is wrong.

    You were saying something about "mean-spirited"?
     
  10. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Both
     
  11. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    I, too, believe we could use a lot more pro-Union protagonists in Westerns, as opposed to Southern fighters. I don't consider OUTLAND a Western, and since DJANGO is deep South-set, it's really only an adapted Spaghetti Western. And while THE FLINTSTONES was clearly a HONEYMOONERS rip-off, wasn't THE JETSONS a FLINTSTONES one? Not to get off the track too much...
    One film I don't believe was mentioned here was the excellent TRUE GRIT remake, which if you leave out DJANGO is currently the most nationally sucessful, barring inflation.
    I think there is something to be said for the geographic argument regarding Westerns, but there is also ocasional room for leeway, thematically or location-wise. They'd be the exceptions to the rule, however.
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not really -- there are some clear similarities, but it's not a direct imitation, more a parallel creation. This essay says The Jetsons was inspired more by the visions of optimistic futurism that were in vogue at the time, "a projection of the model American family into the future." Which is rather different from the more dysfunctional Kramden and Flintstone families. And George Jetson himself was based on his voice artist, George O'Hanlon, and his trademark character Joe McDoakes, a hard-luck everyman who'd appeared in a series of comedy film shorts in the '40s and '50s.
     
  13. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't want to waste much time on your views a second time. But fortunately, following the link didn't take much time to find when you started misrepresenting my views as well as simple facts about the movies. I lost any respect for your ability to interpret posts or movies here:


    The bold face is added. I skipped over the misrepresentation of my contentions about race. Nor did I remark about how your supposed explanation is not even an explanation. It took decades and decades for soap operas and detective shows to more or less vanish from the TV network schedules. Why did it take so much longer for there to be too much of those shows? They suffered from overkill too. (Yes, I know that detective shows are overexposed still.;))


    However, the notion that there was little or no concern with race, when Duel in the Sun is about, well, I quote from imdb: "Beautiful half-breed Pearl Chavez becomes the ward of her dead father's first love and finds herself torn between her sons, one good and the other bad." Race plays little or no part?

    But in your version, this becomes:


    You just make shit up.
     
  14. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    If you had watched the movie, you would know that its editorial position is clear: The bias against Pearl as a suitable wife is wrong, shown most notably through the morally-centered (and Southern!) Lillian Gish character.

    I won't hold my breath for your exegesis on the Henry Fonda character in She Wore A Yellow Ribbon.
     
  15. Taylirious

    Taylirious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I watch The Rifleman on Me TV and think this could work now. A Man, His Son and His Gun?

    Maybe?
     
  16. scifib5st

    scifib5st Commander Red Shirt

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    About a month ago, the Brian and Jill show, Pod cast, found on the internet or Sticher the brian and jill show.com. They interviewed Kurt Russell, they talked about Tomstone. It was a great interview, Kurt is now filming a move about a mining in Alaska.
    :techman::bolian:
     
  17. scifib5st

    scifib5st Commander Red Shirt

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    Ok, sorry for posting agian.... but I'm watching a program called the "Virgnan" which I rember from you childhood, 1963 called "Man of Violenc" With Tramps and gest stars DeForest Kelly and Leonard Nimoy,,,, De plays a Dr. and Leonard is an indaian scout...
    it's on ISNP on Direct TV Chan. 364...

    :guffaw::eek::eek::rofl::techman:
     
  18. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    Are ''manchurian westerns'' like The Good, the Bad and the Weird part of this western resurgence?
     
  19. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    "Bone Tomahawk" horror/western (2014)

    thanks.

    via

    moviepilot.com give us the headline:
    'Stagecoach meets The Hills Have Eyes in this gruesome horror western'
    geez...
     
  20. flandry84

    flandry84 Captain Captain

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    Flicking through imdb's trailer section I just sqw Wesley Snipes' latest effort "Gallowalkers".Blade vs. Zombies in the old west...yeah....'nuff said.:vulcan:

    These horror/science fiction westerns are doing great aren't they?Ask Daniel Craig:rofl:

    For fuck sake(apologies)but a blind man could see that these hybrid westerns are going nowhere(the bargain bin maybe).And look at the sucess that a "traditional western" like True grit has been.
    Where are the famed studio execs heads at?