Wesley Crusher: Racist

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Trekker4747, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. RB_Kandy

    RB_Kandy Commander Red Shirt

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    Well yes those bands are post punk, but so is the goth subculture.

    I honestly don't know whether the original goth was subculture or counter culture.

    by 2005, Anyone calling themselves goth would be pretty artificial. And today, I don't think goths exist any more, they all morphed into scene and emo. I remember when goth was going through a pop, dance, electronic, phase and I knew that this was a dying fad, and any beauty that could be found in that culture was dying fast.

    For me, goth wasn't something strong and definable by the early 2000's. All of it's magic and charm was in the 80's and 90's

    Besides when I went with those bands, I was going with the root bands, not every new band like Xandria, Sirenia, Tristania, and every other Scandinavian female fronted band that sounds like Evanescence.

    I've never even heard of those bands you mentioned. So I youtubed them, listen to no less than 2 songs from each band. My conclusion:
    1. Fields of the Nephilim, sounds a lot like the cure, but without a catchy hook to actually remember the songs by.

    2. Dead Can Dance, oh god that's some horrible music. I had flash backs of Enya.

    3. Terminal Gods, sounds like Sister Of Mercy. 100% like them. As in I can't possibly tell the two bands apart LOL. Thankfully I liked Sisters Of Mercy.

    4. The Gathering, sounds like all that Xandria, Sirenia, Tristania stuff. Though I have found a few good songs by those bands, so maybe I will continue to listen to the gathering.

    So that's what the goths listen to today?
    Wow, I'm old. Let me see, refuse to acknowledge contributions made by bands that weren't back in my day; check. Tells the youth how silly they are for dressing identically whilst claiming to be an individual, labeling themselves yet exclaiming to not like labels; check. Presuming anyone in high school or college has ever heard of even one band I listen to at that age, and no one has; check. Unwilling to accept change; check. Uses the term "back in my day"; check.
    Yup, I'm old. Thanks T'Girl, you know how to cheer a guy up.
     
  2. NrobbieC

    NrobbieC Commander Red Shirt

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    Technically Evanescence sounds like them.
     
  3. data909

    data909 Ensign Newbie

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    Technically Wesley was always in some way shape or form completely racist and rebel to everyone on the ship
     
  4. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    To be fair, while the various Star Trek alien species were often assigned certain broad cultural traits, the shows took pains to show variations among each race, so they weren't all the same.

    As far back as "Balance of Terror," each of the featured Romulans had very different personalities and philosophies. You had the war-weary Commander who just wanted peace and that ambitious underling who wanted battle and glory and political advancement. Not the same at all, even though they came from the same imperial culture.

    Ditto for the Ferengi. Sure, the Ferengi are all about profit in general, but Quark, Rom, Nog, the Grand Nagus, etcetera all had very different priorities.

    Even among the Vulcans, I think it's safe to say that Spock or T'Pol would not have done the same things Valeris did . . . .
     
  5. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    edit nevermind, embed youtube didnt work
     
  6. RB_Kandy

    RB_Kandy Commander Red Shirt

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    Now that you mention it, you're right, there have been instances where races have been shown to have diverse goals and attitudes.
     
  7. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    [ yt ] url [ /yt]
    Minus the spaces
     
  8. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    i know, but i was trying to embed it to where it started at a specific time (i know how to do that as well:cool:) but it wouldn't work. no worries

    thanks though :)
     
  9. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Yeah, some reason you can't embed a YT video here that starts at a specific time.
     
  10. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    I think the scene worked perfectly. I liked the benzite character, and there he is....wesley mirrors the audience reaction....hey! Its the blue dude....then the blue dude is like no, we are just podmates, and are physically identical...it is a subtle, light, brilliant comment on "race" relations that maintains the positive GR view - because wesley is not making the same error as a modern white man is known to - they literally are the same guy - it had to be the same guy for it to work - a genius bit of sci fi - i just wish there had been a Benzite regular on one of the crews - you know they be putting herb in those vaporizers
     
  11. Term180

    Term180 Cadet Newbie

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    All jokes aside, I actually did think of him as a bit racist when he reacted as he had to the fact that his crush turned out to be a shapeshifter in one episode.
    If beauty is truly on the inside, what difference should it make if the girl can shapeshift?

    Wesley should know human women do the same thing, only they use makeup, wax, and razors to look less like sasquatch.

    To Wes' credit, he did seem to kinda get over it, though to me, it seemed like it was more because he knew she wasn't going to be on the ship much longer anyways, like a bad date that was finally coming to an end.

    However, he did find her transporting molecules attractive enough, so maybe beauty is on the inside!
     
  12. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    i think the direction for wesley was to be quite harsh at first, though my take on it is more justifiable betrayal than species-ism. Relationship involves trust, and all that jazz...
     
  13. Nick086

    Nick086 Captain Captain

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    Wow lol that just the type of topics I would see on the IMDB boards. I'm surprise we don't have topics questioning the character's sexuality.
     
  14. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see this as any different than Wesley confusing two Humans siblings who are identical twins.

    I might change one line of dialog ...

    Mendon: Mordock? I am Mendon.
    Wesley: My mistake
    Mendon, I mistook you for someone else, the fault was mine.

    :)
     
  15. Worf's Beard

    Worf's Beard Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Heh, I have to admit that I jokingly thought that as well when he said that line. Naturally, he wasn't being racist (specist?) and was trying to get on with the character, but seeing it's annoying Wesley, I'm willing to think the worst of him. ;)
     
  16. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Well, yeah, it's obvious what is meant by the scene. But I wonder if anyone really would have thought he was the same, earlier, Benzite? It certainly never occurred to me since if it was it'd be a plot point in the episode and that'd make no sense; since there's no way Mordock would be a serving officer now and we were just told Mendon was part of alien exchange program.

    It would've been better to do the scene with Wesley saying, "Hey! My friend Mordock is a Benzite!"
    "Yes, Mordock. The first Benzite in your Starfleet. There's much praise for him back on our homeworld."

    Explains to the audience what's going on (yeah, this is the same actor, but it's not the same guy Wesley met earlier) and doesn't make Wesley a clueless ass who just sees a blue catfish-alien and automatically assumes it to be a guy he met a year earlier.

    The "Racist" comment, again, is tongue-in-cheek as obviously what's going on is trying to explain things to the audience, Benzites just might have some aspect of their genes that does allow for "identical twins" to occur in the general population without there being and genetic relationship between the individuals. But the way it comes across on first blush just sounds odd.
     
  17. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

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    Can't see anything racist here. It's Mendon himself who pretty much says, "there's a bunch of us that look exactly the same so your mistake is pretty much normal." Not at all similar to someone confusing Levar Burton and Avery Brooks.

    Bynars all look alike, though. It's fine though. Some of my best friends are Bynars.
     
  18. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    But that neither gives us any (science fictiony) information about Benzites, nor explains why the production chose to use the same actor.

    The audience would be left saying, "But it is the same guy!"