Were you satisfied with the character arcs?

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by V, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. Nagisa Furukawa

    Nagisa Furukawa Commander Red Shirt

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    No, it doesn't. Neither of us said or implied anything about a DEM.

    You said, ""God did it" isn't the answer, Starbuck got them to Earth, God only brought her back to life."

    But if Starbuck was brought back to life by God... and given the notes she needs to do it by God... the notes themselves being a song seeded throughout the universe by God... all as part of God's plan to get them to Earth... how is it unfair to say "God did it"? :confused:
     
  2. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    You probably shouldn't have watched a show that dealt heavily with the religions of both the protagonists and antagonists. Especially since visions and prophesy were an instrumental aspect of the plot throughout the run. That's a heavy part of the Kobol story arc, Roslin's entire arc, Baltar's entire arc and the reason Leoben was obsessed with Starbuck. The whole series dealt with religion, complaining that a god showed up doesn't make sense.

    If you cut it out, it's just people being chased by robots with no motivation. Then they find a place to stay, end of story. It could have worked, but I doubt it would have worked as well. It would have likely been another boring Trek clone.
     
  3. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, I found it dumb, cheesy, crass and unnecessary. I prefer it when BSG is about characters making tough decisions in tough situations. Not just following visions that God put in their head. It's boring storytelling.
     
  4. Nagisa Furukawa

    Nagisa Furukawa Commander Red Shirt

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    In Season 1, you had polytheistic humans who thought they were right, monotheistic robots who thought they were right, and one guilt-ridden human who saw the robot he fucked everywhere, who may be an angel of god or may be a sign of his insanity from being responsible for the genocide of the human race.

    In Season 4, you have an actual god who can make anything he wants in the plot to happen. It's INCREDIBLY simplified and more literal than where the show began.
     
  5. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    She didn't get the notes from God, watch the episode. She remembered the song from childhood, she worked it out with a vision of her father. The visions are linked to God, but that's part of the show. People don't complain about the transporters on Star Trek. They're a plot device to tell a story, you need the characters to get somewhere and you don't want to waste time landing the ship.

    The visions were a visual method of representing characters working out ideas and revealing aspects of the plot that couldn't be explained in other ways. It would have been boring to show her sitting by herself trying to write a song. But having a character there for her to talk to and write works. In many ways, it's similar to Luke seeing Obi Wan's ghost in the Star Wars trilogy. Luke needs information or the plot needs him to be somewhere, so Ben appears to tells him the story of Vader being his father or tells him to go find Yoda. It isn't a cheat, it's an extremely old story device. BSG just used it to help further a mystery of the show and tied into the ending.
     
  6. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    But he didn't. Starbuck got them to Earth, Baltar resolved the conflict between humans and cylons (until the Colony blew up) and the human and rebel cylons seemed to have ended the cycle of creation of machines, rebellion and genocide. The involvement the Cylon God had remained the same throughout the show, the characters just began to realize what was happening.
     
  7. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Of course I was happy with them; there's really no basis for complaining about the character arcs.
     
  8. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The only I didn't like at the end was I felt sorry for Lee, who was basically left all on his own (With Adama going off and Starbuck vanishing.)
    I always thought it would have been nice to have included a little scene somewhere near the end of Lee and Nurse Ishay flirting, just giving this little glimmer that maybe down on Earth they could have hooked up. (obvs because in real life the two are married)
     
  9. The Stig

    The Stig Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You're confusing inside baseball with any actual shortcoming in storytelling. The writers experimented with the characters, tried to find organic directions for them to go in. That Apollo and Starbuck would have periods of drift where they had no idea what they wanted was only natural. Both characters had their reasons: Apollo's needs to get out from under his father's shadow and Starbuck's self-destructive tendencies all played into their actions.


    Tigh 'fell in love' with a Six because he recently discovered that he himself was a Cylon and had his entire worldview turned upside down. He also saw Ellen in the place of Six during the interrogation and wasn't entirely in his right mind. I think that, as a whole, Season 4 was very effective in putting the characters through the wringer and showing who would crack and in what ways. The utter destruction of Adama's emotional well-being when he found out about Tigh was particularly poignant.

    Zarak was never 'plain evil,' not even up to the final mutiny and airlocking. He did what he thought was right and paid the price when he came up short. Once again, you're using the unprecedented access we as fans had to the writers room process to fuel your assertion that just because the writers didn't have everything mapped out that their choices for the characters were wrong.

    Are you seriously complaining about Kat's death? That was one of the most moving and heart-rending episodes of the series. As for your other assertions here, they amount to nothing more than taste. The end of BSG wasn't to your taste, so you're searching for some external source to validate your opinion.

    None of your purported examples are specifics about anything except repeated claims that characters were 'ruined.' BSG didn't turn out the way you wanted, full stop. The rest is just a bunch of crazy rationalizations coupled with your disturbing obsession with RDM's management style.

    As mentioned by several other posters, BSG set the stage from the very beginning. "I'm an angel of God" was uttered in the first episode of the series. Getting butthurt about a payoff four seasons in the making and then making the bizarre claim that RDM and his writers didn't map things out enough for your liking doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.
     
  10. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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  11. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    Zarek had been jockeying to be the leader since he got out of prison the show, even trying to kill several characters a few times. Gaeta had gone through hell, he worked to the Cylon controlled government while on New Caprica but was a secret spy and would get information to the resistance. For his trouble, he was almost executed by the people he thought he was helping. Later, several of those people were revealed to be Cylons, one of whom was responsible for him losing a leg, and his commanding officer had accepted an alliance with the very Cylons who he had seen kill several thousand innocent victims on New Caprica. It makes sense that he wouldn't be happy and would be willing to do anything to prevent what he saw as an attempt for those Cylons to wipe out the Fleet. He had also seen Dualla kill herself, they were shown to be friends on some level. So he had been through a very rough patch. He clearly wanted to not kill anyone and keep it as clean as possible, while Zarek went around having people killed. He thought he was doing the right thing, but it turned bad and he got a bullet in his head. His biggest mistake was working with Zarek.
     
  12. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Kara's Viper was recreated along with her, being a machine that came from God. So does that make it a "Machina ex deus"? :p
     
  13. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    That's pretty good.
     
  14. DarthPipes

    DarthPipes Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Gaeta's storyline was one of the better ones and one that made sense with everything he had gone through.
     
  15. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Yup. So did Zarek's. Zarek was shown to be a manipulator from day one, and he didn't stop manipulating just because he achieved "legitimate" power. After Earth fell through, he saw his opportunity to oust the current leadership, which he saw as a complete failure.
     
  16. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I'll admit I was moved by Kat's story arc.
     
  17. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    I must be one of the few who wasn't, because her final episode was such an immense cliche. "Let's reveal a character's unsavory backstory that we've not even hinted at before, so they can redeem themselves by dying, all in a single episode!"

    It's one of those things I'd call "retrocharacterization," where someone's supposedly been motivated by particular elements of their past that had been heretofore unrevealed, setting them up to make the Ultimate Sacrifice.

    It just struck me as lazy and cliched and I didn't much care for it.
     
  18. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Well, at times I can be a sucker for clichés. :lol:
     
  19. The Stig

    The Stig Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Me too. They're cliches for a reason, after all. EJO acted the hell out of that episode and left me feeling real emotion for a third-string character like Kat, who was barely in the show. That's a win in my books.
     
  20. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    EJO could make me cry over a torn sponge. He's amazing.

    I got to hear him give a speech at a BSG party at Dragon*Con one year. It was an Adama-style speech and I would have honestly followed him out the door if he said that we (the party) was going to go conquer Atlanta. It was awesome, in the actual sense of the word.