Way of The Warrior: Battle with the Klingons

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by M.A.C.O., Aug 27, 2012.

  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Why would a huge space station fire micro torpedoes? That sounds ridiculous. I always assumed they were the same "Spock coffins" as the rest of Trek.
     
  2. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    It isn't necessarily any more ridiculous than a battleship armed with 16in guns facing the enemy (also/only) with 0.30in machine guns. Depends on the nature of the threat, I guess.

    It would be nice to give those pillbox things a smaller-caliber projectile, to better match the overall small size of the features. Curiously, I don't think we ever saw the "regular" torpedo tubes of the station firing - the ones with the muzzles somewhere near the tops of the weapons sails, as in "Emissary".

    Note also that there appeared to be many "calibers" of phaser in use, with beams of differing thicknesses; the narrowest ones came from the multi-segment strips on the weapons sails and from the simple strips on the pillboxes, while dedicated boxy mounts atop the habitat ring produced thicker beams.

    Weapons sail fires (small?) torps from the center of the phaser strip and from muzzles in the rotating pillbox:

    http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x02/wayofwarrior2_598.jpg

    Weapons sail fires narrow phaser beams, element by element; faint remains of a beam fired by the pillbox are also visible:

    http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x02/wayofwarrior2_621.jpg

    Somewhat thicker beams seem to be projected by the boxy things atop habitat ring:

    http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x02/wayofwarrior2_623.jpg

    Some of the beams are quite thick compared with the ships targeted:

    http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x02/wayofwarrior2_668.jpg

    Outer pylon boxes appear to fire heftier torpedoes from a single muzzle:

    http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/4x02/wayofwarrior2_646.jpg

    Now, everything seen is subject to scaling ambiguities. But IMHO it would make sense for both the torpedoes and the phasers fired by "combined" platforms such as the pillboxes or the sail phaser mounts to be smaller/weaker than those fired by "dedicated" platforms such as the outer pylon boxes (torps only) or the habitat ring boxes (phasers only)...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Because those turrets are not big enough to host full launchers. The lauchers on the Galaxy are 20-40 meters long. Perhaps the choice was between putting an inferior "glued on" short range, slow rate of fire full size launchers (like on a runabout) or putting micro torpedo ones that have high rate of fire in order to repel amassed enemy ships.
    I'll look into it when I get a chance.

    I do agree that it's a bit ridiculous. They shoud have installed full launchers all around the outside docking ring and pylons instead of bothering with rotating turrets.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2012
  4. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    But they did install really badass launchers in the docking pylons. Giant, almost starship-sized boxes with the apparent sole function of spitting out torpedoes from a single orifice.

    The end effect was a nice "layered defense"... The only thing I regret is the disappearance of the original torpedo launchers. Unless we are to interpret the "Emissary" VFX as showing the torpedoes coming from the middle of those weapon sail phaser/torp combo things? But that would take some doing.

    http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x01/emissary332.jpg

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    But the torpedo launchers on the NX-01 Enterprise were only a couple of meters long and the TOS 1701 ones were probably smaller (the entire lowest saucer deck being the size of the bridge - which is probably the same size as the rotating launchers on DS9)

    Just because the 1701-D gives the impression of a long launch tube, doesn't mean thats the only way they can work.
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    ...And fired sublight projectiles as far as we can tell (IIRC, the few warp firings involved the launcher in the rear pod, of unknown length, and aft firing at warp might not require acceleration to begin with). Perhaps the barrel is related to the warp acceleration ability observed with, say, the E-D launcher?

    Similarly, the long barrel might be unnecessary for most of the DS9 launchers, and perhaps only present in the original weapon sail units if at all.

    ...Unless tilted. After all, the Voyager ones would appear to be canted down quite a bit, or else the shots would not clear the primary hull.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. Jimi_James

    Jimi_James Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Location:
    Gettin' Lucky in Kentucky
    Also the Galaxy Class torpedo launchers were a jack of all trades, designed to fire not only torpedoes but probes as well, to say nothing of being able to burst fire ten torpedoes in one shot. A larger launcher might be needed for such wide and varied loads, but if your just spitting torpedoes like the station was, then a shorter launcher could very well be possible. There might also be an issue or range, considering a longer launch tube might be able to impart more speed upon the torpedo to increase it's range, where as the station might not need such great distances.

    Also, if memory serves, the torpedo launchers aboard the Defiant, at least the ones depicted in the the TM, were no where near 20-40 meters long and they were firing Quantums.

    That being said, Drexler claims the rotary launchers were Micro Torpedoes launchers: http://drexfiles.wordpress.com/2009/11/22/ds9-tech-manual-–-03-–-weaponry/
     
  8. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    OTOH, the TM and the onscreen MSDs did portray those launchers as having the generic shape familiar from TNG - the long main barrel accompanied by another, parallel one to create the visual resemblance to today's guns with the prominent recoil absorbers, plus a loader doodad atop.

    This might indeed be but one way to put together a torpedo launcher, but a favored way for starships nevertheless. Some of the launchers of DS9 might be simple revolver magazines without any real barrel attached, firing "peppermill" style, while others might have all sorts of fancy arrangements we cannot even imagine but which necessitate the funny box shape witnessed on those docking pylon weapon stations. And some of the "secondary" launchers on the E-E, apparently incapable of having long barrels, might be "point defense" torpedo turrets as well.

    I say the more diversity, the better. It's sort of sad that the mighty starships have the thrilling specifications of being armed with "phasers" and "torpedoes" and... Well, that's it. And worse still, that's all it can be. Inserting at least some hint of variety, such as "Type 8 phasers" or "Mk III microtorpedoes", puts the thrill back in the technobabble.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    My big thing:

    I don't recall the Klingons ever having pink blood in the series. It's always normal human red.

    Also, aren't the Klingons supposed to be extremely strong and tough - not as warriors (though that too), but as a species? Isn't that the whole point of Worf getting beat up all the time - to prove that the enemy is even stronger than a Klingon? Yet they get taken out more easily than most of the human fighters, with the exception of any headbutts.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    We never really get told that Klingons would be particularly strong. Yes, they endure beating, and TNG "Ethics" establishes redundant systems that give a biological advantage wrt combat wounds - but muscular strength has never been something the Klingons are known for. It's just "warrior fierceness".

    As pointed out on occasion, in ST3, Kruge enjoys demonstrating his personal strength. But that quite possibly indicates he is an exception, which is the very reason he enjoys the demonstrations in front of his fellow Klingons.

    Purple blood never reappears after ST6, that's true. Perhaps it only turned pink because of the type of weapon that hit Gorkon - and the reason the blood of the masked Starfleet assassin at the end was immediately recognized as non-Klingon was not the color, but some other attribute?

    Or perhaps Gorkon was so drunk or high on another substance of his preference that his blood chemistry exhibited a color change?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Well the pink blood came from TUC.