Was What Happened to Lore legal? Opinions, please!

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by SonsofSoong2338, Aug 31, 2010.

  1. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^Agreed. In fact, the point that Soong didn't apparently consider Lore to be a "finished model" would lend credence to the argument that Lore is property rather than a person.
     
  2. SonsofSoong2338

    SonsofSoong2338 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Several people have noted that Lore was found disassembled, and have tried to use this as some justification for doing it again. Remember when the Enterprise crew found those 20th century humans frozen on that pod thing. Now, they brought them back, but does that mean they would have to right to knock them out and freeze them again? Certainly not! That's like saying every parent has the right to kill their kid because they gave them life. Also, Data was found disassembled and was put back together by starfleet. Do they have the right to take him apart again as soon as he starts acting up? Perhaps...after a fair trial.
     
  3. Praxius

    Praxius Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I would have, they were friggin annoying.... damn hicks :lol:

    Didn't your mother or father ever say "I brought you into this world, I can take you out!!"?? ;)
     
  4. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Lore did not have a transporter built into him. Despite the bullshit presented in Nemesis such a device pretty much violates everything we know, and should know, about how the transporters work. Lore simply had a trasponder built in him to activate the transporter on his ship.

    I could also point out that "technically" Data "killing" Lore wasn't murder considering, for the most part it was a "war." Between Picard's Team and Lore's team of Borg. Killing someone to prevent a galactic-wide event of murder and suffering isn't murder.

    It would have been murder if, for example, someone found Hitler and but a bullet in his head. You killed a genocidist. Not a bad thing.
     
  5. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Data also didn't kill Lore because at that point Lore could be reactivated. Essentially Lore was put in suspended animation.
     
  6. Alrik

    Alrik Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sorry SoS, but there you are incorrect. Data was found by Tripoli landind party laying intact out in the open. He was remotely activated upon their arrival.



    While I detect a hint of sarcasm here, remember that in Clues, Picard tells Data that if Court Marshalled, Star Fleet may strip him down to the wires to figure out what went wrong.
     
  7. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Having just skim-read the thread, here's my 2 cents: We have to ask one question: could Lore get a fair-trail? Assuming that the Federation legal system has jury of your peers, where's Lore's peers? Meaning that if he was granted the same rights as Data, he couldn't avail himself of his rights cause any one of his peers would be biased against him.

    Personally, I think he was just shut down and shipped out to the Daystrom Institute or the Starfleet version of the vault from the end of Raiders Of The Lost Ark. If anyone asks, they're "reviewing" the situation: which means Lore's laying sealed in a shipping container. If you want to go dark, they use him for spare parts when ever Data needs something that can't be replicated.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  8. SonsofSoong2338

    SonsofSoong2338 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    You are right about that...I had forgotten that Data was intact. With regards to the other part though, I find that to be another example of hypocrisy. Picard fought to have Data treated as a person, and then tells him that he will be torn apart to figure out "what's wrong with him". Human criminals are not often forced to submit to brain surgery to see "what's wrong with them." Utter hypocrisy on Picard's part.
     
  9. SonsofSoong2338

    SonsofSoong2338 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I do agree that the most likely thing that would have happened was him being shipped off to some cybernetic research place. As far as a jury of his peers goes....you do have a point. I find it unlikely that his would have been a jury trial. It most likely would have been a bench judgement, hopefully from some emotionless Vulcan who would give some objectivity.
     
  10. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Growing up, I doubt my parents entended to bend time and space with my puishment for disobedience. Picard's "stipping you down to your wires" line was likely an "empty threat" simply meaning "you'll be punished and prosecuted severely to find out what happened here." He did not mean that Starfleet would actualy dis-assemble Data.
     
  11. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I kind of thought it was entirely possible Picard thought Starfleet might disassemble him...to find out what was wrong with him, of course...
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought Picard's threat to Data was legitimate, and on the level. Indeed, since Data is the only Soong-type android in Starfleet, why would Starfleet bother to disassemble him to find out what was wrong with him, if they could not put him back together again? If disassembly would mean Data would be unrecoverable, what would have been the POINT of finding out what was wrong?

    IMHO, the very fact that Picard even said that to Data (Picard is not the type to make empty or baseless threats), proves that the disassembly need not have been fatal.
     
  13. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    I think you guys should probably also consider the real-life possibility that Picard making that threat (and thereby it's inherent flying-in-the-face of Data's "rights" as a person was probably not something the writers of "Clues" were all too concerned about. That scene was more about communicating to us two things: 1) Picard is really trying to get to the bottom of the mystery and 2) Data clearly was NOT going to budge.