Was there a TMP Enterprise outrage ?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Belz..., May 23, 2013.

  1. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I remember no outrage, people were really impressed...but then again it had been 10 years and we were ready see anything, and there were no Trekkie fundamentalists around back then yet.

    RAMA
     
  2. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I remember seeing stills of the refit in magazines (Fantastic Films, etc.) and being underwhelmed by the look of the thing. The plating was way more exaggerated in some of the publicity photos than in the film. I never loved the nacelles; I still don't. But outrage? Nah.
     
  3. pfontaine2

    pfontaine2 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I know that Andy Probert gets credit for the redesign. His hands were the last of a long list of designers to create the version we saw on screen. I just don't want to neglect that Matt Jeffries' Phase II modifications were the start of the ship we saw in-screen. Richard Taylor really refined the design we saw on-screen and gave it a lot of the art-deco flourishes, especially to the new nacelle designs. Andy Probert refined a lot of elements under Taylor's art direction. When Robert Abel's FX clmalnu was let go (and Richard Taylor with it), Trumbull retained Probert and added a few things of his own, such as the redesigned upper decks (they were taller on Taylor's version), and of course the additional lighting fixtures so that the ship could appear self-illuminated. Andy Probert is an exceptionally talented individual but he was not alone in creating the beautiful Enterprise we saw on TMP.
     
  4. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Wanna bet? I met plenty throught 1980, my first year as a member of Star Trek fandom.

    Going through back issues of our club newsletter, there were also plenty who were annoyed by the mere thought of Filmation's TAS, and who dreaded the thought of a Spockless "Phase II" wrecking their memories.
     
  5. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    That doesn't really surprise me, but I never ran into any of them myself.

    Sometimes, though, it's amusing to ponder what it might have been like if the Internet had been around back then.
     
  6. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    No doubt the vocal minority would have been more vocal. Like today.
     
  7. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Check out the post-TMP volumes of "The Best of Trek" paperback collections.
     
  8. neoworx

    neoworx Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I remember falling in love at first sight with the Refit when I saw TMP on opening weekend and my opinion has never changed. It is still the quintessential starship to me. I don't recall any uproar about the design at all.
     
  9. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'd make the nacelles more like the TOS ship's. I'm also more fond of the mechanical dish on the TOS ship than the big blue spotlight in TMP.

    Both of which, of course, they returned to with the Enterprise in Abrams's films.
     
  10. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    There's absolutely nothing in Star Trek that isn't hated by someone. If even some logo fonts can be hated, definitely no starship design is immune.
     
  11. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    The TOS nacelles, with their glowing, lit up, spinning things, were conspicuously dynamic and interesting features of the ship. The TMP Enterprise took all that away, to be replaced by other dynamic elements: the jump-to-warp effect and the intermix chamber on the inside being obvious examples. So, a certain level of "outrage" was to be expected from some quarters.
     
  12. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    I was four years old when I saw The Motion Picture. It was my first Star Trek experience. Sitting in the living room, watching it on a moderately sized screen. It was the VHS extended edition. I was unfamiliar with anything else Star Trek, and it wasn't until my step dad told me about TOS and TNG that I really became familiar with bigger Trek.

    The TMP Enterprise will probably always be 'my' star ship Enterprise. Nothing will ever do better in my mind. The balance, the colors, the shapes, the lighting. It all snaps, and feels just right. She's a beautiful design and I can't imagine anyone actually "hating" it. Opinions are opinions of course, and everyone is entitled to their own. I just can't really imagine it. As equally as i'd love to meet Shatner or Nimoy, i'd also love to be able to take a close look at the original Motion Picture model.

    After watching TMP on a loop three times, I actually pulled out my big plastic bin of lego's, and began building the bridge, the enterprise, Klingon battle cruisers, and having adventures with Kirk and Spock. Shortly thereafter the local TV stations were having marathons and 'megathons' of TOS and TNG. A great big new frontier.

    Someday I hope to have my own house, and in that house will be a hobby room of some sort, and hanging beneath a black painted ceiling, dotted with glow in the dark flecks of paint and hand painted nebula, will be a reasonably sized scale USS Enterprise Refit.
     
  13. Workbee

    Workbee Commander Red Shirt

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    When I first saw the new design, I loved it. I missed the colored nacelle caps as others have mentioned. It took me a while to warm up to the black strips on the sides of the nacelles, but I wasn't bothered by the change on the outside. Actually, my first thought was the engines were still under construction and the black parts would have been covered by the time it launched. I even liked the changes in all the sets.

    What did bother me was, after building up the new enterprise almost like a character, calling it "her" and "she", the computer now had a very harsh mechanical male voice with this abrasive buzzer. I realize that ships being "female" is just navel tradition, and the computer voice is technically a separate thing. But I think the fact that computer was heard so frequently through the film (always bringing bad news), coupled with the very sterile look of the interior sets, gave me the sense that the new Enterprise was a very cold and dangerous place to be. Unlike the TOS enterprise, where even thought there was danger in space, the Enterprise felt like a home. The new Enterprise felt like a deathtrap. People dying in transporter beams, warp engine imbalance. To me this was NOT the same ship that brought Kirk and crew back home safely after 5 years.

    Which, to an extent, I believe was the intent of the film. However it was so much that it lost any connection in my mind with the TOS enterprise. I think had there been more time, much of these would have been ironed out in the sound mixing process. What we got in the DE I think helps a lot with making the computer female again and changing the Red alert to more of a siren (though I wish they just would stay with the classic red alert sound from TOS). But even without changing the sound effect, Star Trek II and III made much more selective use of that TMP red alert klaxon / buzzer (so much so that it almost blends in with the music in III).


    -WB
     
  14. Tulin

    Tulin Vice Admiral Admiral

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  15. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Well said, and I agree with these points, although the change did not in and of itself bother me. The "bad news" announcements were overly repetitive, which was a problem, and I expect that would have been one of the things ironed out in post, given more time.

    Also, personally, I think that the various attempts in the DE to alter that ambiance were both misguided and unsuccessful.

    That ambiance was intentional, and I don't think it was quite taken far enough. On the board, I've commented before about how there's a thematic connection between the transporter accident and Ilia's digitization. I think it might have been a missed opportunity to develop that connection explicitly, with at least some discussion of how Federation technology was moving towards what V'Ger was capable of (compared with where we are today, in the real world). That would have justified the tense and nervous feeling conveyed by the ship's interiors, it would have made the statement about the V'Ger/Decker fusion being a possible next step in our evolution less of a throwaway line, and it would have given greater depth to the film's tagline about the human adventure just beginning.
     
  16. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    Glad I'm not the only one. The biggest issue for me is that it doesn't match the bridge noises from II and III, rather the DE producers used the library of sounds built for the 1701-A's bridge as seen in V and VI, which are quite different.

    And I find that I miss the computer auditory feedback that was there in the theatrical version. I agree it was a bit much, male instead of being female, and probably could and should have been dialed back. But the idea seems sound, it was reporting the status of things that were automatically monitored. Something we hear the TNG main computer do more, such as when it automatically reports radiation exposure warnings, etc.
     
  17. Workbee

    Workbee Commander Red Shirt

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    Sorry.. I am probably going a bit OT here, but I wanted to clarify better.

    I have since warmed up to the male computer voice. Missed it too in the DE -- especially during that first transporter accident (which I think is the first time you would hear it). The new computer voice just didn't give you the same sense of "oh shit... someone fucked up and people are going to die"

    Looking back, by the first intruder alert (when Ilia gets zapped) it felt like too much. Up to that point was enough. Just off the top of my head, I can't think of any episode where they go to red alert more than 2 times. And now, only an hour into the movie we already heard it 4 times. This also created problems for the film. The intruder alert could easily have been announced by Spock or Chekov. Especially since this was at the tail end of the long vejur flyover -- more dialogue was desperately needed. At this point, the use of the computer voice had likely accomplished what it set out to do:

    1) Reinforce the differences from the old ship to further convey Kirk's initial unfamiliarity and awkwarness.
    2) Provide a sense that ship was not yet ready having been rushed at Kirk's orders, making it unsafe. After Spock arrives and repairs the warp drive, no other systems are shown to malfunction or be non operational (save for the panel that Spock smashes). Essentially, from this point on the ship is shown to have achieved a desired level of readiness. At this point, the continual alarms should have been unnecessary. All further alerts resulted from either external factors or mission driven requirements. I think dramatically, the film would be better served had these alerts been raised by the crew. From the interception in the cloud to when the Ilia probe arrives, I feel like the crew are just passengers along for the ride. With most of the plot developments being announced by the computer, it makes the crew look like they were just reacting to things after the fact.

    To bring this back on topic, my issues weren't so much about these new elements, but how they kept the characters from feeling (to me) like and integral part of the ships crew. Though the concept is sound for computer announcements, I think they inadvertently shortchanged some of the characters by losing their lines to this unseen voice.
     
  18. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, the first time you hear it is in the announcement of an auxiliary power test in two minutes, as Kirk is entering Engineering, before the transporter accident.

    Edit: Although now it just sorta came back to me that maybe there's a message about the pod being secure, when Kirk and Scotty first dock on the Enterprise?

    The only copy I have is the DE, so that's kinda frustrating to me!
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2013
  19. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What's a "clmalnu"? :confused:
     
  20. Workbee

    Workbee Commander Red Shirt

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    @CorporalCaptain: Yes, you are right. Forgot about those.

    A thought just occured to me (now this is really OT) -- did the auxiliary power test play a part in the transporter malfunction? IIRC, when Kirk first engineering, the computer announces the auxiliary power test is in 2 minutes (or something to that effect). It seems like the transporter accident happened within a couple minutes of that.