Was the Ambassador Class phased out?

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by t_smitts, Nov 26, 2012.

  1. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

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    I think a Sovereign class ship would blend in just fine, being that it's slightly bigger than Excelsior, but much smaller than Galaxy and Nebula.

    It would have been nice to see USS Sovereign swoop past those Galors when the Galaxies did.
     
  2. CharlieZardoz

    CharlieZardoz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    There was at least one Ambassador class ship in the Dominion war, the Exeter as part of the 9th fleet. Wasn't shown on screen but neither was the 9th fleet :)
     
  3. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would think that with Starfleet pulling probably all the Galaxy-class ships from their assignments to the Cardassian border would mean that all those areas they had been exploring or defending would still needs something to fill in for them. Sending in the Ambassador-class ships would seem reasonable. They are reportedly a bit slow in sublight, which might make them a little too much of a liability in the sublight melee-like battles against the Dominion, but they have enough firepower, warp powee, and sensors ability to maintain defenses against the likes of the Tholians, Gorn, and other smaller powers. Also able to continue exploring regions the Galaxy's were exploring prior to them being called back around the time USS Odyssey was destroyed.
     
  4. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    It might also be that a high percentage of these top-of-the-line ships for each era are sent to those "up to thirty years away from the UFP" assignments. At any given time, then, there would be lots of "top ships" from several recent eras out there - but a crisis like Dominion War would only warrant calling back the very newest vessels

    1) because they would make the greatest difference in the war, and
    2) because they would not be quite as far out yet as the earlier ships, plus
    3) they might very well be the fastest of the lot, and thus the ones best suited for emergency recalling.

    This would not be a matter of policy, of keeping up exploration. It would be a tactical and technological matter where only the Galaxies could and would be recalled, and the Ambassadors would fail to qualify for recall orders.

    There's an underlying assumption there that might be false, though. None of the Enterprises ever undertook anything like those 30-year missions to our knowledge, even though the E-B, E-C and E-D at least held apparent leading status in the Starfleets of their day. Could we then plausibly argue that any of their sister ships did, when we totally lack explicit evidence? Perhaps only second-rate ships are assigned 30-year missions, or even those decade-long sorties that the Olympia (with 23rd century style nacelles - see the wreckage!) apparently was on.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  5. CharlieZardoz

    CharlieZardoz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I think the evidence implies that not as many Ambassadors were built as Galaxy's Excelsior's or Miranda's Akira's etc. Like the Renaissance or New Orleans there are a few here and there but they had a limited run therefore there are only a few around in comparison to the massive output of the other designs which we know the real universe reason was that they were all CGI renders. There was another Ambassador class near the Cardassian border the Valdemar it's possible it fought in the Dominion War as well at least there is no evidence to dispute that possibility. :)
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Well, there are more Ambassadors known by name than there are Galaxies... If only barely.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And seemingly all the Galaxy-class ships are near Deep Space Nine, and later Earth when Voyager returns. Unless they really ramped up production on that class of vessel. Though why were Starfleet have so many at Earth? Massive refit project to convert the war time Galaxy-class ships into proper explorers?
     
  8. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    As far as successful world-building goes, I think it was a mistake to carry over any movie-era designs into the TNG era with the lone exception of the Stargazer which was an older ship anyway. They did it because they had the models lying around but at the expense of plausibility. If in Trek III they could justify retiring the Enterprise then it makes no sense to have dusty old Mirandas which are roughly the same vintage flying around in the TNG era. Policywise it's just too inconsistent. It was cost-cutting that cut into suspension of disbelief.
     
  9. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If the Ambassador class design was used as the 1701-A prototype in TVH than that would have been an extremely exciting final scene to see Kirk and crew take her out. :vulcan:
     
  10. Tim Walker

    Tim Walker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If you compare the Excelsiors to B-52s, the Mirandas could be compared to DC-3s.

    BTW, by the TNG era the Excelsiors seem to have been relegated to milk runs. Such as ferrying passengers out to the Enterprise D.
     
  11. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I like to think it's a big galaxy, and depending on where you are you may see more of some designs than you would others. In some regions Ambassador-class ships may be fairly common, while in other regions folks still haven't seen a Galaxy-class ship yet.

    It seemed plenty plausible that there would still be 23rd-Century designs around by the time of TNG, although probably nearing the end of their service lives. Inconsistency is the only consistency in real life, so some designs may be around twice as long (if not more) than others for various individual reasons. And just because a particular design may be around for nearly a century doesn't mean each ship within that design can.

    I think you can take two ships from the exact same design, launch them at the same time, and then look at them both again 25 years later--one may be in its prime and ready to continue for many more years, while the other could be ready for the breakers.
     
  12. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    If there's any realism about Starfleet shipbuilding policies, it's that ships continue to serve for at least a century. Klingons do better, of course...

    Ships today are short-lived because of two reasons:

    1) They are poorly built to withstand wear and tear, as we are still so very primitive technologically.
    2) They face an evolving threat, again largely because we are so primitive and keep on evolving.

    The threat faced by starships would not evolve significantly. I mean, it has had four billion years to do so already! Space amoebae don't get more powerful or cunning in just a century, and whatever the Dominion invents today has been invented by other star empires millions of times before. Even the Borg, supposedly an epitome of evolving threat akin to the SG-1 Replicators, have stagnated to stability in their mere hundreds of millennia of existence...

    The Federation is the heir of dozens of local star empires and their technologies that in certain cases have had a few thousand years to stabilize. For the technological rat race to revert back to making relevant leaps in mere centuries would call for some sort of an explanation!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  13. Tim Walker

    Tim Walker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One idea I've come across is that (Prime timeline) Star Fleet was devastated. So filling in the gaps are 23rd/early 24th century ships pulled from mothballs. Ships that haven't been seen in decades.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  14. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Quite possibly so. It's interesting to note that the only evidence of wartime shipbuilding, or shipbuilding brought to completion during wartime, in the multi-year Dominion conflict, is the tiny Sao Paulo...

    ...Or actually we don't really know whether even this ship was built during the war, or merely renamed (the dedication plate has a stardate for "launched", but the Defiant 1.0 didn't get properly launched until half a decade or so into her existence). All the ships taking part in the war have registries lower than those of the DS9 and VOY hero ships, and none represent all-new types (save perhaps for the Prometheus, and that vessel was only a prototype that never saw frontline combat AFAWK).

    Perhaps it takes so many years to build a starship that wartime construction simply isn't worth the effort, not unless one is counting on the war dragging on for decades. For a mere five-year conflict, it's better to divert all resources to maintenance and repair!

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  15. Tim Walker

    Tim Walker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Perhaps small size made it practical to build the Defiants during wartime. Large size might have been a bottle neck for the Sovereign class.

    As for the Ambassador class, my impression is that few were built, and probably a number of those may have beem destroyed.
     
  16. Tim Walker

    Tim Walker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Last edited: May 3, 2015
  17. Richard Baker

    Richard Baker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A lot of the Galaxy Class ships in the Dominion War were mostly empty hulls with just weapon and propulsion systems according to the DS-9 Tech Manual. I can see them being brought back for extensive rebuilding to turn them into fully operational ships capable of any mission assigned once the need for them in the war was over.

    The Ambassador Class ship always seemed to me to be a bridge vehicle- developing newer technologies. Once it was fielded certain shortcoming showed up which were compensated for in the next class, like having more of a blended hull and elliptical saucer for better warp dynamics. It also did not have any impulse engines on the saucer (unless they were for some reason buried behind panels) so a saucer separation would leave you stranded.
     
  18. Starborn Dragon

    Starborn Dragon Captain

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    Hey, I never knew that Niagra was just one letter away from being Viagra.

    There's some sort of cosmic significance there.

    What that is I shall never know.
     
  19. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, the ship does have three nacelles, so it's overcompensating for something. :p
     
  20. Tim Walker

    Tim Walker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A class (from canon)that could be pulled out of mothballs.